Moving up a level okay?

[imported_turvalon]

I was wondering if it was time to move up a level. I have only been playing seriously for a few months at Paradise on the .02/.04 tables. They gave me $2 in my account to start and I have worked that up to $10 in about 1500 hands.

I only have PT data for the last 744 hands:
VP$IP: 26.34
Saw Flop not a blind: 25.51
BB won per 100 hands: 11.71
Win rate per 100 hands: $.58

This isn't including my first 1000 or so hands. If any other info would help, let me know.

But.. My question is... I have heard some people say to move up after you have played something like 10,000 hands. I have heard others say, move up when your bankroll hits 300 BB. I have no problem at all sitting at .02/.04 for another 9,000 hands if that is what is best but I wanted to know if I should move up to .05/.10 when I hit $12 (300 BB) or just sit here till I have a certain number of hands?

Thanks for any input.

[tyfromm]

I think it is safe you you to move up now. The quality of play is not much different. If you hit a bad run you can always step back a level (say if you drop to 150 BBs) but it is unlikely.

At a minimum you can take shots for a limited time period just to get a feel for the next level.

[afk]

Keep in mind that the 300 big bet number means 300 BB at the next limit. 300 big bets at $.05/.10 is $30, not $12. Though you most likely could get away with moving up at 200BB ($20).

Keep in mind you're only basing your results off of less than 1500 hands it seems, that's not a lot.

I just moved up to .25/.50 from nickel and dime. I moved up early at only 200BB ($100) because I had 10,000 hands at that level ( a decent number) and because the jump from nickel & dime to .25/.50 is so huge that I didn't want to stick around for another 10,000 hands to make another $50.

So far the move up has been profitable. But if I was in your position I'd probably grind it out to 200BB ($20) before I went any where.

[Saborion]

You don't have enough hands logged to know if you're a winner or not, but that maybe you know without having the numbers to back it up. 1500 hands is nothing. I believe they say you should have 20k hands logged to get an indication of your win rate.

If you stick to the 300 BB rule for the lower limits and keep at it, you shouldn't have to worry too much about busting out if you're constantly trying to improve your game. If you can move down a limit when encountering a bad run, then you even less to worry about. You don't have to play x amount of hands per limit when playing that low, since the play won't differ a bit between the limits. So once you reach 300 BB, move up. Just realize that you will encounter good, as well as bad, runs, making it possible that you will sometimes play very few hands on a given limit before moving up.

Conclusion. Move up when you have the BR to do so, until you reach a limit where you feel your edge is not quite as big as you'd like.

Edit: I just realized something. You asked if you should move up when your BR reaches $12 (300 BB). Well, that's 300 BB for the limit you play now, .02/.04. When talking about 300 BB in that sense, you need 300 BB at the HIGHER limit, in this case .05/.1. So you're looking to have $30 before moving up. Another important thing to keep in mind when moving up is, but that goes for poker in general, is not to think about the bets in terms of $$. You should think in terms of the chips as means to win the pot. You battle with them, to use some sort of cliché. At the end of the session, don't think "I won/lost xx $$", think "I won/lost xx BB's". That will ease things up.

[MarkD]

I agree with all this - in theory. But when we are talking about 300BB = $30 I think the guy can move up whenever he is confident with his game for that limit regardless of BR. He can resuply his BR for the cost of taking his GF to dinner and a movie if he goes on a bad run.

I just don't see the need to piss around with BR's and stuff at these limits. You should be playing them to learn the game and get experience but I can't imagine losing $30 hurting someone.

[rayrns]

I have never played at Paradise. But at Poker Stars the progression is from .02/.04 to .05/.10 then .25/.50 before you get to .50/$1. (I believe their is another site that has a similar progression, but I don't know which one.)

If you have netteller, I might suggest you move your account over there. You can build on your bankroll faster as you can progress a bit more rapid with their format.

Good luck in whatever you chose.

[RED_RAIN]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with all this - in theory. But when we are talking about 300BB = $30 I think the guy can move up whenever he is confident with his game for that limit regardless of BR. He can resuply his BR for the cost of taking his GF to dinner and a movie if he goes on a bad run.

I just don't see the need to piss around with BR's and stuff at these limits. You should be playing them to learn the game and get experience but I can't imagine losing $30 hurting someone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just because someone can lose $3,000 doesn't mean they should start at 5/10. The bankroll isn't because you can afford to lose it not, you learn stuff at each level, the bankroll is there so you have a less chance of busting out. If you really want to lose and it's not about the money, play till you get the correct bankroll through poker play, if you don't care about the money, feel you got some stuff down, just jump to .5/1 and learn there. Pretty easy game if you got the basics.

[MarkD]

[ QUOTE ]
Just because someone can lose $3,000 doesn't mean they should start at 5/10.

[/ QUOTE ]

We aren't talking about someone starting out here (although even if we were if $3000 is the same as $30 is to most of us then why shouldn't the guy start at 5/10). We are talking about someone moving from one incredibly small limit to another incredibly small limit. Is there going to be any change in play at all? I can't imagine. Is there going to be opportunity to learn anything new at the new limit that he couldn't learn at the lower limit? I can't imagine.

Sorry, but for the majority of us there is a huge difference between $3000 and $30. $30 is easily replentishable. $3000 is not nearly as easily replentishable. This simple fact is important.

I guess I just have a hard time seeing the point of jumping from 0.01/0.02 to 0.05/0.10. I can see the point of starting at that level but I don't see the point of staying there. To each their own though, this is certainly a matter of choice and not something I should be arguing about.

[Saborion]

I agree with you. But I didn't want to say that to a new player since I think building a solid understanding of the BR requirements early is a good thing to do.

[imported_turvalon]

Sorry about the 300 BB number I posted. I now realize that I meant to say for the next level, which will give me a ton more hands anyway now that I think about it. That's what I get for posting at 5 AM. But thanks for the advise on the BR anyway.

The reason I ask is because i was planning to sit at a level until I felt really good about my play and I wasn't sure if the difference in .02/.04 and .05/.10 was that different.

I am very aware of the benifits of staying at one level for a long time and learning the ins and outs on the cheap but if the level of play between those two limits is none, I would rather play a higher limit for the benifit of more money. If the play is better and I should stay lower to continue to learn, I will.

[MarkD]

Having never played either level I can almost garuntee you the play will be the same.

[MarkD]

You are doing the new player a great service, as proper BR is important - I just think it's much less important when we are playing for pennies. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[bernie]

I think it was 'gamblor' who had a great idea about moving up. Something like, once your a session buy in for the next limit 'above' your current limits 300BB roll, give it a shot.

At these limits your primary concern is the time you've spent on the micro. That's where your value is at the moment. If they're not taking any rake, you profit quite a bit more.

That said, when i started my last roll with .15, the next limit was .25-.50. So once i go to about $30, i bought in for $10 on that level.

b

[Hedge Henderson]

I started out with the free $2 as well. My stats were a little better for my first 1000 hands, but I had a very good run of cards. From about $4 to $10, the deck just ran over me.

I didn't want to put any of my money in, so I waited until I hit $18 before I started $0.05/$0.10. If I got knocked down to $15 (and I did a few times), I moved back. I wasn't comfortable at $0.05/$0.10 until I had 250 BB and, even now, I'll play $0.02/$0.04 after a bad night or if the $0.05/$0.10 tables are too tight.

I don't doubt you have the skill to beat the $0.05/$0.10 tables, but I recommend putting a little more into the bankroll before moving up. The differences between $0.02/$0.04 and $0.05/$0.10 range from moderate to large, depending on the day and time. If you are kicking butt at the $0.02/$0.04 tables, try two tables at once. Two tables of $0.02/$0.04 with 68% of the players seeing the flop are more profitable than one table of $0.05/$0.10 with 45% of the players seeing the flop.

I wish you good luck and I hope you will keep us informed of your progress.