Hyperaction vs. maniac [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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bvaughn

06-05-2004, 02:40 AM

Main opponent is an over-the-top aggressive maniac. I have played >200 hands against him - VPIP 50%, PFR 31%, Agg. Factors - Tot 2.8, Flop 3.6, Turn 8.4, River 4.4

I felt like I grossly overplayed my hand while I continued to push the raise button. My two redeeming thoughts were A) my hand might be good although I would not be too suprised if I was behind with just TPTK on a very coordinated flop. B) If I'm behind, I have 13 (maybe 18) outs to catch up. But my main thought was that the maniac (due to prior experience with him) would just as likely cap it with just a K or Q (or even less) as he would with two pair or better.

But, with the CO calling all of these bets, I started getting very worried about him on the turn that he flopped a monster and is just letting the maniac and I bet and raise his hand for him.

As you can see I caught my flush and won a monster pot, but what did the maniac and the CO have...any guesses?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Hero K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, Hero raises, CO calls, Button folds, SB (Maniac) 3-bets, BB folds, Hero caps, CO calls, SB (Maniac) calls.

Flop: (13 SB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Maniac bets, Hero raises, CO calls, Maniac 3-bets, Hero caps, CO calls, Maniac calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Maniac bets, Hero raises, CO calls, Maniac 3-bets, Hero caps, CO calls, Maniac calls.

River: (24.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Maniac checks, Hero bets, CO raises, Maniac 3-bets, Hero calls $3.50 (All-In), CO caps, Maniac calls.

Final Pot: 33.85 BB Hero wins 28.55 BB

Ulysses

06-05-2004, 02:55 AM

I like it.

Izverg04

06-05-2004, 05:22 AM

Just awful. You lost $53 by not having sufficents funds on the table. Other than that -- I like it too. You can reassess on the river if you don't improve -- that is when you have enough to cover 4 bets.

naphand

06-05-2004, 06:22 AM

TPTK plus a draw to the nuts is certainly worth a cap on the flop, no worries.

The biggest "monster" that CO can have is a set, you have the grandaddy of any other draws out there, so you should not be unduly worried be either of your opponents.

OK, the Turn was a blank, but almost certainly of no use to anyone else either. You are in a bit of trouble against 2-pair or a flopped straight, but with plenty of outs.

If you figure you are against a straight, you are 21-26% to win with your draw, depending on how many other /images/graemlins/spade.gif are out there. There are a lot of other possible combinations here that have a large impact on your EV, the worst of which is against a 2-pair hand; against a K 2-pair you are about 26-30% to win. See here (http://www.twodimes.net/poker/?g=h&b=Js+Qs+Kh+6d&d=&h=As+Ks%0D%0A8s+8c%0D%0AKc+Q h).

Anything less than this (such as QJ) and you are 40% However, if CO is playing for the flush as well and/or you are against any kind of one-pair hand (like AQ or KT) and you are the massive favourite to win here (http://www.twodimes.net/poker/?g=h&b=Js+Qs+Kh+6d&d=&h=As+Ks%0D%0ATs+8s%0D%0AKc+T h).

Given that you should be capping this flop, you have to decide what action on the Turn indicates you are behind to 2-pair or straight. CO calling along could be a straight, but he is playing it wrong if it is, with the flush draw a clear and present danger, he should be raising you. I think most likely he is drawing to the flush or has a pair plus a straight re-draw (like KT). You already say maniac could bet this way with any pair.

I think raise the Turn and call a 3-bet. You raise to charge CO if he is indeed drawing, and you have to raise maniac but I baulk at capping this; you could well be behind and have plenty of outs, CO won't fold to the cap. That said, I can see a justification for capping the Turn as well, given your opponents, and calling the River unimproved. If you hit you can be sure of getting more bets out of maniac and very probably CO too.

4 bets in on the Turn with 80% chance of a win is cool, 40% win chance is good, 30% is close to neutral, 25% is wrong but not disastrously so.

Be interesting to hear from others why a Turn cap is preferable here, as opposed to a call or raise/call.

The cards your opponents held? I'm guessing Maniac had KJ (poss AQ) and CO held a flush draw like T /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif (poss AT).

bvaughn

06-05-2004, 12:04 PM

Results below:
Maniac shows 8d Kc (one pair, kings).
Hero shows Ks As (flush, ace high).
CO shows 8s 9s (flush, queen high).
Outcome: Hero wins 28.55 BB. CO wins 5.30 BB.

naphand - you were incredibly close on the hands. Thanks for such an in depth analysis, and I'm leaning towards the turn cap being a bit over the line. Of course, being shortstacked (I'm a moron for not having at least $120 on the table) cost me some extra money as I am 100% sure that both the maniac and the CO would've called a cap on the river as well.

Ulysses

06-05-2004, 02:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You lost $53 by not having sufficents funds on the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had missed that. Very good point.