What to do?

I have Q6o in the big blind. Table is fairly weak.


Four limpers. The flop is 578.


I bet out. Good, bad, routine or doesn't really matter either way?


All call and the last player raises. We all call.


Turn is a Q.


What to do?


I bet, all call, last player raises. I call, the rest fold. WTF? Whatever.


Good, bad, routine or doesn't really matter either way?


River is a K.


Despite being fairly sure I was beat, the pot was big and the 2+2 anti-laydown theorists begin clamoring in my brain that I can't fold. This is certainly the kind of player who could be betting a draw or an eight this way . So I check call and lose to a set of eights.


Was my river play good, bad, routine or doesn't really matter either way?


natedogg

The only real debatable plays are with respect to the flop bet and river call. The flop bet is ironically not so good against weak players who will call with overcards, gutshots etc. It is a play that ought to be routinely made (with this flop) against strong players.


The river call is a function of your opponent's tendencies to raie you twice and then follow it up with a bet on the river. Some opponents are quite capable of this and you have to look them up. Some are utterly incapable of doing this - you of course then fold without much ado.


Overall, nothing wrong with how you played this hand.

I think that the river should have been a fold. My reasoning is that it is so typical for players to call on the flop with a monster then raise on the turn. This guy is raising with a strong hand almost 100% of the time here because he knows people have already clled and probably figures to get called by at least one person on the river. If i read correctly it looks like you were getting 13-1 on you river call but I doubt that your chances were much more then 1 percent to win the pot.


BTW, On the flop I would have check called for reasons similar to what skp said.

If you have 5 opponents who will call on overcards, gutshots, runner runner etc, why can't you bet the flop essentially for value? While you lose the added value of getting better hands to fold, you also gain the value of their weak draw money in the pot for your strong draw.


I think this is a good enough flop to bet against any type of opposition? Or is the problem that if you lose anyone, the value of your draw goes down too much. Isn't that compensated for by the ability to checkraise after your make your hand due to the deceptive aspects of your flop bet? I caught the "ironically" in your post, perhaps you could explain it a bit further?


Personally, I might have considered checkraising the flop after I saw how many players were interested in contesting the pot. I also would certainly have folded the river (new years resolution #5: when checkraised on the turn, top pair is no good!).


David

I don't like the flop bet. It's a limper's flop: mid-level cards, straight-coordinated. I'd rather take a cheap or free card to draw to my straight.


I probably would have check-raised the turn, hoping to drive out the other 6s. I then call the re-raise and check-fold the river. A guy who has raised me three times and bets on the river when an overcard comes has Q-6 beat. Sometimes we anti-laydown theorists want a few fruit plates.


So I lose as much as you did and don't get to see his cards. At least no one can accuse me of being results oriented.

If all 5 call with super weak hands, then yes...you have a bet for value (although you could easily be chopping the pot even if you hit...this is not a flush draw that you have). But the trouble against weak opponents is that you will usually have only 2 guys calling (i.e. 3 completely miss and fold) and you will have no idea how to play the turn when an overcard hits. Now, I am not saying that betting against weak opponents is wrong; I am just saying that the bet is more effective against better playing opponents. Semibluffs are always less effective against weaker players.


Against strong opposition, you may win the pot outright on the flop or at least set it up to win on the turn. Plus, against strong opposition, you need to show that you are capable of playing hands differently including betting a draw from early position. This type of deception is wasted against weak competition.

What do you do on the river if a 6 comes? What about a queen? Assume that everyone besides the bettor folds. Then change your answer to assume that there is a cold caller on the turn.

He's raised twice already; hard to put him on anything other than a set or an already made straight. Hard for him to figure me for having a 9 or a 4, so the 6 doesn't give me bluffability. I doubt he's been this frisky with 8-7 or 7-5, but you never know. I check and call with any hand that can beat 8-7, regardless if there's a 3rd player.