10-10 dilemmas

I had two 10-10 hands that hurt last night. Game is 15/30, fairly loose but no maniacs.


Hand 1:


I have 10-10 on the button. There is a poster in the cutoff. Two limpers plus the cutoff limp, I just call. Both blinds call.


Flop: 5-6-8 rainbow. Check to the cutoff, he bets, I raise, SB 3 bets, BB and limpers fold. Cutoff calls, I call.


Turn is a jack. SB bets, cutoff calls, I fold. River was a rag, SB bets, cutoff raises (bad bluff -- he had K-7) and the SB shows 6-8 off for 2 pair.


Is this too results-oriented or should I have raised pre-flop?


Hand 2:


Same hand (red tens), same position. Three limpers (including UTG, who is solid) to me. I raise this time and both blinds fold. Limpers call. Flop is:


Kc Qc 3h. Check to me. I check.


Turn: 10d.


UTG bets, others fold, I raise, he reraises (Barnacles!), I call. River rag, I call his bet and he has the AJ.


I don't think he would have folded for one bet on the flop but of course I wish I had bet.


Is the flop check a mistake? What are your criteria for deciding whether to raise with 10-10 after multiple limpers? I basically use the JJ rule that you are almost better off with 5 or 6 opponents than raising to face exactly 3 opponents, so limping seems right, but there is of course some value to knocking out the blinds. There may be no clear answers but I am interested in seeing what you guys do in this spot.

one thing to be aware of in the first hand is that if you raised preflop it gives you an easier read on the flop.


Pat

Hand two: I don't think checking the flop was a bad play. It's not an impossible laydown on the river because your check on the flop after raising a big field preflop might smell like a set to the opponent in which case lots of players won't three-bet the turn here without a straight.


Preflop in general. I'm gonna raise 10-10 on the button against limpers, doesn't matter how many. With any hand, the leverage purchased for one bet is a fair price IMO. With a real hand, all the better.


Tommy

I think you played the first hand fine. 10-10 is not a great hand so I think I would have just limped before the flop with this many callers. Generally you would love the flop so you have to raise when CU bets out. Obviously when sb three bets you have to be worried. When he bets out on the turn I think you should fold. He easily could have a made straight or at least two pair.


The secnd hand is more difficult. With a flop like this you have to think you are behind. With this many players it is unlikely than none of them has a higher pair. However, since ou raised BTF I would probably bet and hope everyone folds, you may get someone with a Q to fold. When the ten comes on the turn I would also raise and when UTG 3 bets you have to just call and make him show you a better hand.


All in all I don't think you played the hands poorly but just ended up losing. You have to remember that 10-10 is a very vulnerable hand so don't get upset when it doesn't win.

I think the first hand could be played either way dpending on the blinds and new player (of course you know little or nothing about him unless you have played with him before). If they are apt to fold then I think raising is a good gamble to try to get them out. If you figure that one or two of them will call then I would lean towards limping.


On the second hand I would limp almost every time.

I think one should be more inclined to raise w/any playable hand with late position posts. A raise may get some second rate out. I have heard more than once people saying ,"oh I don't want to raise this many limpers w/T's or J's and such." I think this is total nonsense, if you have alot of people you can raise w/ 3's and such just for set value and w/ T's you have over pair value also. I don't like letting blinds and esp late postion posts seeing a free/cheap flop.


In the second hand I think the flop bet is close w/3, it depends on the players will they fold a Q? a weak K? If so a bet would be in order but if you are likely to get checkraised a check would be preferable...


Note though the AJ would be correct to call your flop bet getting about 9-1 just to snag a T, and there is some chance an A may be good....