TT utg+1

[Ntirly]

Should I have played back at this guy? He is loose and a huge bluffer.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, Hero raises, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
BB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (5.25 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.25 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
BB shows 5d 8d (one pair, eights).
Hero shows Tc Td (one pair, tens).
Outcome: Hero wins 7.25 BB. </font>


Time to find a new table when this happens.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, Hero raises, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: 1.75 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
No showdown. Hero wins 1.75 BB. </font>

[eric5148]

If the guy is maniacal, then I don't see anything wrong with the call down.

[dfscott]

This is one of those situations where it depends on how much variance you're comfortable with. With most people, I'd raise the flop to see how much they like their hand, but with a true maniac, you won't learn anything.

[juanez]

I raise the flop. If he calls the raise and bets out on the Turn, you're probably beat (even maniacs can get a K or J) but calling down against a maniac is OK.

Turns out you played him for more chips than if he folded to a raise on the flop...be happy. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[chief444]

I think given your read on the opponent calling down is fine.

[easypete]

Hand 1:

Personally, I don't think TT is strong enough to raise w/ in EP. You will get many callers in a .5/1 game at PP. The chances of the flop having at least one of A,K,Q, or J are tremendous (about 69% of the time). You need to induce callers behind you for this hand to pay off. If you are seen as a good player on your table, then limping may induce more limpers with mediocre hands because the pot is now "protected". If you are raised, then strongly consider re-raising to isolate, depending on the position of the raiser.

In saying that.... raise the flop... if re-raised, then call down against a bad player... fold against a good player.

Time to find a new table when this happens.

assuming this is meant for hand 2

I've had this happen many times before... Even on a good loose table, this will happen... I've raised UTG+1 w/ JJ before and all folded... very next hand, got AA UTG and raised again... got 5 callers.

[B Dids]

If your read is that he's a bluffer, I re-raise the flop.

If he's sold and bets at you, I think I just lay down here.

[MicroBob]

i've said it before....if you are playing party 2/4 or smaller and it EVER gets folded around to the blinds then you need to consider finding a new table.
you KNOW there have to be more profitable tables somewhere...this is party afterall.

your situation was similar of course and you are correct...go ahead and find a new table when the blinds come back to you.
you can use the remaining time at that table to scout other tables AND determine if you really want to leave.
perhaps it was an abberration and they will show fishier play in your remaining hands there in whic case you can stay.....but if they don't prove their fishness to you in that time then go ahead and leave.


on your TT hand...your hand is probably best among the PF stuff out there...so go ahead and raise PF imo. 99 or 88 is where i might limp. but you have to draw the line somewhere so limping with TT here isn't so bad either if that is your choosing and the previous poster did provide solid logic to his less aggressive play.

calling down against someone THIS crazy is probably okay. although i'm not sure i would make a habit of it.

if you are lucky it might work as advertising with someone else...if they notice that you called all the way down with a so-so hand.
it might just look like to two borderline maniacs going at it to the rest of the table so you might actually increase your chances of getting paid off in the future.

additionally, i find that some of these 'bet-happy' maniacs will tilt even more drastically after losing a frustrating hand like this.

[flexus]

I have some comments to hand 1. Against a typical opponent I would raise the flop here. Despite the preflop coldcall there is a good chance we are ahead with the tens. If he plays back at me I might consider folding. But remember this is heads up play, and any one pair hand is actually a pretty good hand.

Anyhow, the point I wanted to make was that against this type of player, the aggressive bluffer, the best play is often to simply call down. He might get scared and release if you play back at him, but you loose less by simply calling the times you are behind. I strongly beleive that when up against the maniacs one has to temporairily abandon the tight and aggressive shell and start to call a lot in situations like the one you described. Would be interesting to hear some of the more experienced posters opinion on this.

[Kluddeludde]

I think you played the first hand perfectly. Had you raised at some point, he would've only called with hands that beat yours and fold all others. Well played.

Tough luck in the second hand, but it happens from time to time.

Kludde

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyhow, the point I wanted to make was that against this type of player, the aggressive bluffer, the best play is often to simply call down. He might get scared and release if you play back at him, but you loose less by simply calling the times you are behind. I strongly beleive that when up against the maniacs one has to temporairily abandon the tight and aggressive shell and start to call a lot in situations like the one you described. Would be interesting to hear some of the more experienced posters opinion on this.

[/ QUOTE ]



i think this is a really good theory that i hadn't fully considered before.
makes a lot of sense to me.



against real aggressive maniacs, i'll even consider calling down with overcards unimproved based on the situation.

usually this involves the flop coming 992 becuase if they bet at it that often means they DONT have a 9.
they're just not typically sharp enough to keep playing fast when they actually DO hit a good flop.

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
they're just not typically sharp enough to keep playing fast when they actually DO hit a good flop.


[/ QUOTE ]
So true for many maniacs. /images/graemlins/smile.gif The only time I really start to worry about this type of opponent is if he starts check/calling. Many maniac types give a ton of action with trash hands but then slowplay any good hands, not realizing that they are missing out on many bets because no one will give them credit for a monster.