A quote - Agree or Disagree?

[t_perkin]

[ QUOTE ]

In the early stages of those Sit and Gos almost all flop and turn bets should be made with the aim of winning the pot then and there.
If you don't think you stand any chance of winning the pot you should just check...or push in


[/ QUOTE ]

agree or disagree?

[Mackas]

I'd be very surprised if anyone agreed with this - far too simplistic.

[carpola]

Disagree,

Flush or straight draw I might make a small bet either hoping to take it or get value on my bet when you hit. The pot will be bigger increasing the chances your opponents will call on the end.

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't think you stand any chance of winning the pot you should just check...or push in

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm guessing this didn't come out the way you intended but I'm definitely checking and folding a pot I have no chance of winning.

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
In the early stages of those Sit and Gos almost all flop and turn bets should be made with the aim of winning the pot then and there.

[/ QUOTE ]

What buy-in? what site (i.e, what is your stack size?). I would agree that generally any bet, as I see it, especially on the flop and many times on the turn, is aimed at taking the pot there and then.

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't think you stand any chance of winning the pot you should just check...or push in

[/ QUOTE ]

What does "stand a chance of winning the pot" mean? I will try to bet hard enough, but with an option to abort if it doesn't work (fold). Pushing does not make sense if the pot is relatively small. Pushing might make sense on the turn, for instance, if there's a chance your opponent will fold a better hand, and again on the river. It depends on your read. Otherwise, on low buy-ins, in early stages, this is completely wrong, and checking agaist calling stations is wiser, if you don't have a hand.

[Peter Harris]

Here's an example from today's batch of SNG's. I flop top pair on the button, checked to me.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+2 (t800)
MP1 (t800)
MP2 (t800)
MP3 (t800)
CO (t800)
Hero (t800)
SB (t800)
BB (t800)
UTG (t800)
UTG+1 (t800)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls t15, UTG+1 calls t15, UTG+2 calls t15, MP1 calls t15, MP2 folds, MP3 calls t15, CO folds, Hero calls t15, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t120) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(8 players) </font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets t785 (All-In)</font>, SB folds, BB calls t785 (All-In), UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP3 folds.

I knew i was ahead when i pushed. Fear flush and OE straight draws. Should i be pushing in this situation when 100% confident my hand is CURRENTLY good, and it cuts out the odds of my opponents?

Turn: (t1690) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 2 all-in) </font>

River: (t1690) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 2 all-in) </font>

Final Pot: t1690
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: t1690 (t1690), between Hero and BB.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by BB (t1690).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
BB shows 6s 7h (straight, eight high).
Hero shows Qs 8s (one pair, eights).
Outcome: BB wins t1690. </font>
so, they had the OESD, and hit on the river.

I don't care about the short term result, i want to know: IN THE LONG RUN, is it +EV to push with the best hand in the early stages and hope for a caller?

Or should i play tight with my 1 pair and hope to make it to the river and take down a small pot?

This is something i would like comments on.

Pete Harris

[PrayingMantis]

I think your hand doesn't have much to do with the original post by Tim, since it's a multi-way, unraised pot. Completely different situation, that asks for a much more cautios play.

When you call on the button with your Q8s, you are looking to flop a BIG hand, to bust someone out if he has a 2nd best hand. You flopped TP marginal-kicker. Very far from amazing. People can have virtualluy anything there (8 people in the pot!), and there's a chance someone is slowplaying trips, or 2p (from the blinds), higher PP, or TP better-kicker. Your push is certainly a mistake, IMO. You are risking everything in a multi-way *unraised* pot, with pretty marginal holdings for this situation. True, you were ahead at that point, and got a loose call, but there's really no reason in betting more than the pot, and see where it's going. Again, when you first called PF - this is NOT the hand you're looking to bust on.

[obex]

I agree your all-in here is a bad move. Obviously your opponents call was horrible with a drawing hand. However, I would say 90% of the time you get called here it will be by a better hand. You are risking the tournament for T120. A pot sized bet will likely get the same people to fold, but if you do get called you won't be busted.

[NotMitch]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't care about the short term result, i want to know: IN THE LONG RUN, is it +EV to push with the best hand in the early stages and hope for a caller?

I knew i was ahead when i pushed. Fear flush and OE straight draws. Should i be pushing in this situation when 100% confident my hand is CURRENTLY good, and it cuts out the odds of my opponents?

[/ QUOTE ]

Betting T800 into a T120 is not going to be a +EV play in the long term.

Edit: Fixed format.

[Beavis68]

I dont like playing crap like this early in the game, for just this reason, going all in with top pair 3rd kicker is another weak play. Maybe bet the pot and then be done with it, if even that.

[Prickly Pete]

Absolutely disagree. When I flop a set, I don't want everyone folding.

[woodguy]

Peter,
When there is either a flush draw or straight draw on the board, I no longer push on the flop with TP.
Many online players will call all-in with a draw and 2 cards to come, not many make the call with a draw hand and only 1 card to come.
I wait until the turn, if no scare card come, I push.
If a scare card comes, I proceed with caution.
I just don't see TP as a hand I'm willing to go broke on early.
Regards,
woodguy

[Al_Capone_Junior]

I fail to see how this would be more important in the early stages than it would be in the later stages.

al

[GuidoSarducci]

Disagree. If I'm holding the stone cold nuts at this point, the LAST thing I want to do is win the pot right there.

[tolbiny]

"almost all of your bets"

[Pil Sung Do]

In the early stages of those Sit and Gos almost all flop and turn bets should be made with the aim of winning the pot then and there.
agree or disagree?


I disagree. The early is when you can get extra chips when you have the best hand. In most SNG's, there are a couple players that will give away their chips if you'll let them. Why let someone else have them?

Yes, there are times where you will get outdrawn, but in most cases, they would have called a big bet (and draw out
anyway).

I would much rather win small pots later on, than small pots early.