Heads-up with AA ($10-20)

A player in early position (EP) limps. I raise from a middle position with a pair of black aces. It is folded to the BB who calls. Now EP re-raises, I make it 4 bets, and the BB folds. EP raises again, I make it 6 bets, EP makes it 7 bets, I make it 8 bets, EP makes it 9 bets, ...


The casino rules permit unlimited raises when heads-up in this situation. I and EP have approximately the same amount of chips. I know very little about my opponent as he just joined the game a few hands ago and has not made any unusual plays.


Here is my question: should I get all of my money on the table pre-flop (assuming EP cooperates) or is there some value in slowing down to see what the flop brings?


I will post my thoughts and how the hand played out in a separate message below.


Manzanita

I thought that there was value in seeing the flop so after putting in about 2/3 of my stack pre-flop I chose to just call. My guess was that about 90% of the time we would have the same hand; if he didn't have AA then I expected my opponent to have KK. If the flop came with a K or 3 hearts or 3 diamonds then I planned to check down the hand, assuming my opponent continued to bet out.


The flop was good; it came 9 high with 2 diamonds. Most of my remaining chips went into the pot at this time. The turn was a black King and the river was a Queen. I didn't like these cards but my opponent was all-in by this time so it didn't matter.


Not surprisingly my opponent revealed 2 red aces and we split the pot.


This situation comes up very rarely but it does make an interesting hand.


Manzanita

I don't know the exact point I'd stop the pre-flop raising but I wouldn't put all my chips into the pot before the flop just because I've got AA. Going all-in may be a +EV play but you're unlikely to be in this situation enough times to ensure a long term profit with it. It's never happened to me.


I'd decide how much money I'd be willing to put in one hand and raise it to that much pre-flop. Then, I'd check/call unless the board is extremely favorable- such as Aces full or a nut flush.


We've all been on both sides of Aces getting beat when somebody flops trip Kings or Queens. There has to be a point where you ignore EV and stop to see the flop.

I think that you probably do, but it depends. I cannot imagine that this person has anything except the other two aces... The only consideration is your concern for variance. If losing your whole stack is more of a concern to you than the chance that this guy doesn't have aces, then just call. The chances that the board will come with a flush for either of you is equal, obviously.


For me, I'd tend to put it in given that I likely have a rack on the table in a 10-20 game and just write it off as tough shit if he has AAred and makes a flush. I also played a hand once against a guy (he had a bit of a grudge against me) who went 9 bets preflop with KK against my AA and so I tend to think that when in doubt, push it in.


Best,

-CW

This flop was not good for you at all. If you give him AhAd, you are in the worst possible situation because he can make a flush and you can't. If you're going to aggressively push it all in on the flop when you're being free-rolled on, I think you may as well get it all in preflop and get it on autopilot from the start. I like the autopilot option given your assessment of the flop and your hand and your read (no offense, we all miss things or play hands imperfectly.)


-CW

Bad plays pre and post flop. You should get your whole stack in before the flop if he lets you (unless you are 100% certain he has AA). Post-flop, you are almost certain (at least 90%+) he has the red aces. Why would you possibly want to give him a free-roll on the remainder of your stack to hit runner-runner diamonds?


BTW, in four months of tournament play, I have seen AA lose to AA three times, once at a no-limit final table. For some reason, this seems an especially painful way to get aces cracked.

I vote get all-in pre-flop if you can, especially if your opponent has loose aggressive and/or tilting tendencies. I witnessed a hand recently were a similar pre-flop raising war broke out between a decent player and a maniac. The decent player, who had A-A, stopped raising after 10 bets or so. The maniac had Q-Q, and I'm sure he would have gone to the felt. I was really surprised A-A stopped raising preflop, as this is one of those once in a blue moon great gambling opportunities. Unless he really needed to protect his bankroll for some reason, I think A-A was mistaken to stop raising. However, naturally the maniac spike a Q on the turn and won the pot. /images/smile.gif

"I don't know the exact point I'd stop the pre-flop raising but I wouldn't put all my chips into the pot before the flop just because I've got AA. Going all-in may be a +EV play but you're unlikely to be in this situation enough times to ensure a long term profit with it. It's never happened to me.


I'd decide how much money I'd be willing to put in one hand and raise it to that much pre-flop. Then, I'd check/call unless the board is extremely favorable- such as Aces full or a nut flush.


We've all been on both sides of Aces getting beat when somebody flops trip Kings or Queens. There has to be a point where you ignore EV and stop to see the flop."


I could be wrong, but I find your reasoning faulty here. You say that going all in may be pos. ev, but "you're unlikely to be in this situation enough times to ensure a long term profit." True, you will not get your whole stack in pre-flop with aces very often in limit, but it is still a non-negative EV play for sure, and possibly a positive EV play (people can be mistaken about what they have). The thing is, extremely few situations ever come up often enough to reach the long term. You might be a net loser on flopping the nut 9-high straight, for example, because it only happened once. That doesn't mean you shouldn't ram and jam with some fool who keeps raising a set. The idea is that luck will average out over all your situations. You don't hit the long run in any particular situation for a long, long time, but over all poker hands you play the long run comes much more quickly (although it still takes hundreds of hours). There are only two reasons for not putting in every chip you have with the mortal nuts (which aces are pre-flop). One is that you think you are being cheated, but in a casino this is unlikely. The other and important reason for maybe not committing all your chips is to cut down on the variance in your play. You might even turn your cards over and often to chop with the guy once you get all-in to cut down on variance, but that's up to you.

Yeah, there's an idea. I hadn't thought of that. If you DO get it all in before the flop and you turn your hands over you can offer to chop. Unless the other player just wants to gamble, you'll likely have your offer accepted and your variance concerns (if they exist) will be solved.


-CW