bubble bb play

[citanul]

4 players left in a nl sng, i'm on the bb with ~2k chips, sb has ~2300 chips.
blinds are 100/200

folded to sb who calls, i have J9s.

1st question: do you just push here?

I didn't, the flop came A 9 6 rainbow

he bet 200 and I pushed all in.

is this a fold?

oh, because it's clearly important:
stacks were: 1400, 2000, 2100, 2300 with a touch of rounding.

thoughts much appreciated. right after i pushed i had a sad feeling, like clearly this was the wrong play. i felt that he would be calling with any ace and likely laying down with anything else, but he also seemed like he probably would only bet out a 9 or an A. The other thing that I felt was that he had been raising a lot, the way he should have been, when it got down to 5 handed or so, and I felt if he had an ace he would have raised it pf. I realized that these feelings are somewhat contradictory to each other, so i thought i'd ask for advice.

anyway, go nuts.

citanul

[William Wilson]

Isn't the idea to tighten on the bubble?

J9s?

Am I missing something?

[citanul]

apparently yes, it was a FREE PLAY.

hope that was what you needed from the lost and found box.

additionally, is the idea to tighten up? in this case, if i double up, i'm in great position to win, as opposed to just eek into the money. that's for another post though, this one is about what to do with the J9s from the bb on a FREE PLAY when flopping middle pair.

citanul

[Ptolemy]

I had an almost identical situation today; J9d, 5 people left (no one in serious danger chipwise), blinds 100/200, flop was 5 J A rainbow. I called the SB pre-flop. When he bet 200 after the flop I pushed all in, an additional 800, and he folded.

My thoughts on the situation.

A push pre-flop is risking everything to win T200. J9 against a caller, even the SB, isn't overly strong, so I agree with your call in this situation.

After the flop and you hit middle pair requires a bit of a read. Would the SB just call with an ace pre-flop or raise? Would he then just bet 0.5 x pot with that ace hoping you'd call? The betting doesn't seem consistant with most people playing that ace. Even with the SB just calling his ace pre-flop in a sort of slow play, I'd expect after he hit a pair of aces to either make a pot sized bet or more to take in down there or, more likely, to continue the slow play and check looking to raise all in. The 0.5 x pot looks weak, a quick stab at the pot hoping you also missed to get you to go away. To me everything says you are ahead here so push and prevent him from drawing out on you.

Just my thoughts on how I played it.

[William Wilson]

Sorry, no luck in the lost and found.

Free play ... sure, but question No. 1 was whether you'd push preflop from the bb with J9s. No free play here, since your stack is sitting in the middle.

Ok, so you take it and see a flop (question No. 2). I understand playing to win, but you will probably have better opportunities to double up than middle pair with OK kicker against the chipleader, IMO. Why not raise the pot and represent the ace? He's only going to call your all-in bet if he has you beat.

FWIW, "eeking into the money" isn't a horrible strategy. If you haven't already, buy TPFAP. There is also an excellent SnG FAQ (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=664102&page=&view=&sb =5&o=&vc=1) by t perkin.

[carpola]

[ QUOTE ]
he bet 200 and I pushed all in.

is this a fold?


[/ QUOTE ]

My guess is you got beat that's why your asking.

I would probably check or fold this to anything but his minimum bet. Minium bet tells me he's weak and probably the best hand he has is weak ace which you can probably get him to lay down with an all-in.

My guess is that playing with him gave you enough information to make the right play.

[citanul]

wow, i thought that i had put in the original post the results. yeah, he called and had a weak ace.

like i said in that post, from his earlier play, it seemed like he would have raised preflop with an ace, or bet bigger on the flop at the minimum (he had checkraised top pair a couple times against other players as well). as such, he was probably one of the trickier players i've seen at a 10+1 so far. i thought that he might have even layed down a weak ace, but i was wrong.

and, as a final note, "my guess is you got beat and that's why you're asking" is ridiculous. i got beat, but i'm wondering if it was the right play. there are lots of times when i win and i wonder if it's the right play as well. if you only question what happens when you lose, you'll likely miss out on a lot of learning about things that you're doing that you are currently winning with.

citanul