Loose $1/2 HE - See every flop?

[Brinko]

Hi All,
In my regular home game around 80-90% of players see every flop.
I have a reputation as a tight player and fold the majority of my starting cards if they don't fit Lee Jones' requirements.
It seems that at least 3 times a session (we play ~ 8 hours )I will fold J7 off pre-flop and the flop hits JJ7 or A3 off and the flop is 333.( or similar situations ) I find this really annoying.
Should I stay in for every flop regardless, since there is little pre-flop raising in my game, so it only costs $1?

I know this is the wrong style for higher limits, but I figure the advantage, in my game, is that you can't read a player who stays in for everything as well ( or at all ).
At the moment, if I'm in, people know I hold good hole cards.
What do you reckon? A good style or a way to the poorhouse?

Thanks

[Greg J]

This might be a good thing to post on the theory board too. This is interesting -- basically there is a sociological reason to play a certain way. Your friends (assuming they are) might be a little offended about your play style, even if they don't admit it. I think Doyle Brunson might discuss this in Super System -- that is dealing with people. He discusses more of the sociological aspects of poker than any author today.

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It seems that at least 3 times a session (we play ~ 8 hours )I will fold J7 off pre-flop and the flop hits JJ7 or A3 off and the flop is 333.( or similar situations ) I find this really annoying.


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all i can say is live with it. /images/graemlins/smile.gif playing J7 looses you money in the long run. period. A3 is not as bad, but is still an easy muck. We ALL fold what would often be the best hand. Ironically it's part of being a winning player.

I can't really say what the best way to deal with these people -- I don't know them. But if you want to win money, tight aggressive play is the way. You've read Lee Jones so you know what I'm talking about. If you want to keep your buddies happy then maybe loosening up is the answer. But i don't see a strictly poker related reason for loosening up play that much. If you really want to give these boys a spanking, then master your game at the nano-limits online. The game you are describing seems quite similar.

As for your home game having 80 to 90% of the ppl seeing the flop... can i get driving directions from Baton Rouge? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Brinko]

Brisbane, Australia is a long drive.
But thanks for your comments.

[Greg J]

guess that means i cant take the interstate. What currency do you use?

[Brinko]

Australian Dollars. $1 AUD = around 68cents US last time I checked.

[Chiefs Fan]

I understand what you mean, as I had this same thing with some friends in the past year. If you are going to loosen up, better to do it with hands that are suited and just fold when the flop misses them, but play aggressive when you are in a hand, make it appear that you are really "gambling" with lots of big raises when appropriate. raise a flush draw if you are on the button, stuff like that, or raise with hands like JTs on the button preflop from time to time. also, might watch the check raising, some people take offense to it and it might take away the "fun" of playing, making it seem more serious that it really is. just bet your hands straight up if you make them. and if you're totally destroying them, over play a hand or 2, don't make them think they've walked into the lions den. if its mostly to relax and have fun, keep it that way.

[Kenshin]

Hey Brinko,

How many players do you have in your home game? You should loosen your starting hand requirements substantially if you play against 5 or less opponents.

Kenshin

[Randy Burgess]

As posted, you don't include enough information to answer the question.

* What's the size of the ante/blinds? The bigger the starting pot, the more you must loosen up.

* What's the betting structure? You say you can see the flop for $1, but how big can the bets get thereafter? A good no-limit player will limp as many hands as he can get away with, provided that he is up against bad players with big stacks. Limit poker, on the other hand, requires much tighter play since your implied odds are not nearly as good for junk hands.

* As Kenshin noted, how many players are dealt in? This combines with the previous two points. In general, the fewer the players dealt in, the more you should loosen up your starting standards.

Lastly, forget about those times you fold a junk hand like J7 preflop and then see the flop come in such a way that you would have made a monster. Subjectively you are severely overestimating the number of times this actually occurs.

If you do indeed get a reputation as a very tight player, you can later on use this to your advantage by stealing some pots - David Sklansky and Bob Ciaffone have both written about exploiting their image as tight players in this regard.

As a trivial example, if you raise preflop with your good hands and find that too often everyone folds and all you pick up is the blinds or antes, you can start to increase your raising frequency with some weaker hands (but not total trash) until people catch on. Then you can go back to being tight.

[Brinko]

7 - 9 players. Fixed betting $1 preflop + flop $2 turn and river.
Capped at 3 raises till the river. No antes.

[Sundevils21]

I started playing poker, lost a lot, read lee jones, turned in to a big winner at the tiny limits.
The only thing I might suggest is while playing tight preflop is important, if you are a better post-flop player than your opponents, you can see a lot more flops. A good post flop player knows when to dump his hand on the flop and when to keep going. J6off is still an easy muck. But a hand like J9suited, on the button, with a couple of callers(usually always the case in your game) can definatly be played for a profit, if you are a good postflop player.

[Randy Burgess]

No antes?! If that's true, you should tighten up some preflop, depending on how many players typically come in and whether it's usually raised or not. And you can completely forget about junk hands like big-little offsuit, no matter how well you think you play after the flop. Even in a regular hold'em game such hands are long-term losers - with no antes or blinds in the pot they're even worse.