It happened....what a day ugh

I finally had the day that eveyone posts about. I started off the weekend plus 216 and was rolling and then yesterday everything blew up in my face. Your basic nightmare... AA cracked by a turned 2 pair, straight flush draw that doesn't get there either way and is taken down by two Ace High callers the whole way... and this hand...


I am in the big blind with 8s7s. All fold to cutoff +1 who open raises... all fold to me. I call. (is this a proper hand to defend with - or should I have just folded??)


Flop comes As 2s 3s.

YES!!


I check (I should have bet this to protect against a lone K Q or J - correct?). He bets, i call.


Turn is Ad (As 2s 3s)

Now I am really excited.


I check, he bets, I raise, he reraises, I cap.


River is Ac (Ad As 2s 3s)


UGH!


He bets. Am I wasting a big bet here by calling? By his action on the turn, I am 99.9999999994% sure he has an ace. But, since I have a huge fish emblem on my forehead I pay him off to see his AKo.


3-6 game cost me 6.5bbs in that hand alone. If I bet and reraise the flop does he fold? Is it safe to fold this on the river?


I am going to take a break for a while. I looked at my stats. They were very close to my +624 +155 bb weekend two weekends ago. I did not get tentative when I was losing, it just didn't happen. I am sure that the +624/155bb was an aberration just as this (hopefully) was on the bottom end. I did a lot of staring at the ceiling last night though.


Please let me know how to play the flush hand differently - right down to if this is a hand that should be folded heads up in the big blind and not defended.


Thanks,

Kevin

Yes, you can defend with 78s headsup in the BB vs a steal raiser. You can defend with it against any raiser, actually. Yes, you can and should fold on the river. And no, no matter what you did, he was never folding his AK, nor would you want him to on the flop.

Preflop, I would call from my big blind with 8-7 suited. You are getting 3.5-to-1 pot odds, you have only one opponent, and there are many ways for you to win against one opponent besides making a straight or a flush. A pair of sevens could easily win against many hands that a steal-raiser could have.


I would have bet the flop although it probably doesn't matter. I would bet the flop because my opponent will not put me on a made flush but rather a flush draw or some other hand.


I would also bet the turn. Again, he will not put you on a flush or even trip aces (the latter would seem unlikely to him since you did not bet the flop or check-raise the flop). If raised, I would 3-bet.


At the river, you are surely beat. You have an easy fold despite the large pot. You know he must be at least full given the betting action so far.


On this hand, it probably did not matter how you played it since a blind versus steal-raiser situation has its own rules and guys will hang in there with almost anything.

There is nothing you could have done to win that hand... almost no one would lay down AK there heads-up.


I am currently on my first real losing streak... I've lost the last five sessions for a total of 80BB in 25 hours. It is very frustrating, but I just try to identify any mistakes that I am making. If I lose a hand where the cards beat me (like the hand you posted) where nothing I could have done could have won the hand, I don't think twice about it. If I make a mistake, though, I try to figure out where it was and resolve not to make that same mistake in a similar situation again. Though I suppose losing is easier for me because I've only played 150 hours of live poker and am most likely a losing player for now.

how come i didnt benefit from your streak?

TABLE CHANGE! I WANT MK'S TABLE! hahaa


not on a great streak myself...eh heh heh misery loves company...


ill be up there today, sunday. i think theyre doing hours today.


b

You know, everybody's saying that oh, it didn't matter that you didn't bet the flop. He wouldn't have dropped.


Well, yeah,they're half right. But it seems to me that you have the best hand here, but you're extremely vulnerable,and you can not give somebody free cards to beat you. He could very easily have a higher spade--you can't give him a free card!


Yeah, you got hosed by the river. It happens. You lost some money. However, statistically, most of the time this happens you won't get hosed by the river--and to make up for the mony you lost when the cards don't fall your way, you have to charge the draws as much as possible.

I feel your pain. I've lost about 60BB at PP in last week, ~ 15 hours. Just brutal, and against some terrible players.

Man, is everyone on a losing streak now? My last couple of weeks at Paradise I've gone down around 100BB myself. One thing I've been focusing on is table selection, I've been staying too long at tables that are bad, and playing bad tables when nothing else is available. I've also been fighting typical beginner problems like calling down dominated hands. Of course, none of this is helped when someone holding 96s coldcalls three bets and rivers a flush against your AAA (yes, this happened to me today.)

Been focusing on the same thing. It seems on the weekend wait lists are so long - 7-8 if not double digit 2-4 and 3-6 that by the time you get into a game that is good it has turned (or is turning) sour. I played about 1700 hands this weekend and saw the flop about about 18% voluntarily and about 24-25% with the big blind included. I looked over all of the hands. About 15-20 times I flopped 4 flush, top pair or two pair (9 4 seems to ring very well with jj on turn and river and 9 10 takes it the 10 kicker...) All I wanted was to fold and go to the next hand and they seem to sucker me in. This really added up.


My main leak that I found was leading until the end leading the betting with callers. A card that looks like a brick on the end will fall, I will bet and someone made their two pair or set and raise and I call it down - or even worse, someone will bet the river after I have bet the whole way. My showdown percentage was terrible - right at 50% - especially in the minus 41bb 3-6 game that smoked me. You saw an example of this with the extra bb that I donated with the 3rd ace hitting on the river - knowing that I was beat but unable to lay it down...


It seems like such a fine line. I don't want to always fear monsters under the bed and lay down at the first sign of aggression - (I had a guy raise me (ME - WHO CAN'T SEEM TO LAY DOWN ANYTHING) on a pure bluff middle pair against my set that I bet the whole way... of course it was the worst thing that could have happened because now I am convinced that it is happening every time!) but at the same time, I think that I counted that it cost me about 15-20bbs over the course of the day when I looked at hhs that I was bet into or raised on the end after leading the whole way (and these are not the obvious scare card - flush/straights hitting, I usually slow down here unless I have a good read on someone). I think this is why I need to stop for a while because I fear going too far the other way into weak tight mode and everyone starts running over me - although I do need to improve here.


Thanks for the encouragement. I am showing a standard deviation of 16bbs - as high as 22 on $.50/$1.00 to 14 on $3/$6 so I need to get a stomach for the swings.


Other than the river play (like saying other than the iceberg the titanic ride was wonderful captain...), I was really happy with my play. I was able to lay down AQo preflop in the face of utg and ep raises in a tight aggressive game - and see 9 times out of 10 AA, KK, AKs, AQs, QQ, or JJ - this was a hole that I had been working time. I called 11% of the time, raised 9.5% of the time, saw 18.44% vol preflop and raised preflop (either open or after someone was in) about 9% of the time. It was discouraging. I did a lot of swearing, but I don't think that I tilted - other than calling down too much stuff on the end.


Best of luck to you - hope to see you at the tables - with both of having a big stack!


Kevin

Flopping hands like 94 and 4 flushes, top pair, in the big blind in an unraised pot - not sure if this is clear.

I've been on an up and down and down ride the past week on PP as well, about -25 bb for the week. Right after my root canal too. Coincidence??


I've done excellent my last few live sessions though.. which is 4x the stakes. So I guess I'll live with it.

The games I've been playing in have been really good, lots of terrible players, that's the sad part. I should be cleaning up.

"My main leak that I found was leading until the end leading the betting with callers"

Not sure that's a leak, usually that's good poker if you have a decent hand.

"I was really happy with my play."

Oh, that is sooooo me. Except for maybe a few semi-bluffs that went awry, I think I've been playing very well. It's kinda scary that I can lose so much and think I am playing so well.

I moved over to the Short-handed tables for awhile, figure the suck-outs won't be near as brutal 5-handed.

Hey,
You call that a bad day? I call that every day. At 3-6 and 5-10 online, I have been getting that kind of stuff..well, every day. The most recent trend for me is the runner 2 pair with 3 overcards and no draw on the flop and the elusive runner gutshot to beat my top pair, overpair ect. After 2 months of this, I am almost exactly even for that time period, which is actually encouraging since I never knew it was possible to get beat down so long without the statictics of the game kicking in.
I also think you can toss the flush on that last hand.