Dragging the pot without a hand, PLO

[Acesover8s]

I've posted quite a few hands where I looked like a moron lately, here's one I think I played well, but several of the decisions are debatable.

.50-$1.00 Online PLO the table is loose and aggressive, not a single pot has been unraised preflop, so much so, that I frequently do not get a chance to put in a raise. The whole table calls anyway.

UTG ($250) raises the pot. EP ($541) makes it $12 straight. Solid player ($100) coldcalls. I call with A /images/graemlins/club.gif8 /images/graemlins/club.gif7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif. BB calls, original raiser calls.

Flop comes 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gifq /images/graemlins/club.gif. Shockingly, the entire table checks to me. The only player likely to be slowplaying a big hand is the BB or UTG player, I have 13 nut outs, I bet the pot. Folded all the way around to solid player who calls, leaving himself with $29.

The turn is the J /images/graemlins/spade.gif. He checks, and I check.

The river is the K /images/graemlins/spade.gif. He checks and I put him all in.

[Guy McSucker]

Hey aces,

First up, I only count 11 nut outs for you on the flop. Have I lost my marbles?

Otherwise, I really like your play. You almost surely can't win a showdown here, but he is almost surely on a draw and won't call with his "made hand", whatever it may be (one pair I guess), because he's in a drawing frame of mind.

You're betting $29 to win $150ish on a bluff, and will win much more than one in five.

Very nice.

Guy.

[ML4L]

Hey Aces,

I am FAR from an expert at PLO, but my take is that, if you're pretty sold on your read of your opponent as solid, he's going to call the river with any set and maybe even two pair or AA. It seems pretty clear that you're on a draw when that card hits the turn, because it was a total blank. If you had been betting a set on the flop, you are going to bet that turn 99% of the time. A jillion cards on the river make a straight or a flush and your opponent is almost all-in. Only a draw checks that turn.

So, the only way you could succeed on the end is if your opponent was also drawing. So, what are the chances of that? You have the nut flush draw, so he probably wasn't drawing to a flush. He could have a 20 way straight or something, but would he not put ALL the money in on the flop? Or bet the river when he knew that HIS hand couldn't win a showdown (add to that the weakness that you showed by checking the turn)?

If he is "solid," he didn't put in more than half of his stack on the flop with a garden variety draw and then give up after missing. Of course, you likely can only win the pot by betting, which is a vote for your play, but I don't know if it'll work often enough.

I really like my logic, but I barely know PLO, so take it with a grain of salt... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

ML4L

[Matt Flynn]

you have the right hand to bluff with. unless he knows to be extra sticky with you or is unusually loose, fire away.

matt

[Acesover8s]

[ QUOTE ]
First up, I only count 11 nut outs for you on the flop. Have I lost my marbles?


[/ QUOTE ]

Guy, you are forgetting about both jokers which are used on the cryptologic skins, either of them would also give me the nut flush.


[ QUOTE ]
Otherwise, I really like your play. You almost surely can't win a showdown here, but he is almost surely on a draw and won't call with his "made hand", whatever it may be (one pair I guess), because he's in a drawing frame of mind.


[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly, although I did have one pair, he is very likely to have made a larger pair himself, but it 'cannot' be good. He could have of course stolen it first, but he is more obviously drawing than I.

Thanks for the response.

[Acesover8s]

ML4L,

Interesting response. I think you have some good ideas, but are giving my opponent way too much credit for holding a hand.

[ QUOTE ]
. Only a draw checks that turn.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree this is fairly obvious in this situation. But there are other hands where you may check a strong hand on the turn, and in the heat of battle your opponent may or may not extinguish it. In this case I gave the opponent the opportunity to make a "right of first bluff" steal, but by taking the alternate course of moving in on the turn I lose whatever bluff chances I may have in the end.

While, I think you are right about reading the hands, players often make mistakes in the midst of the play and will foul up the river opportunity he has been presented, mainly because he is playing HIS hand, and I am playing, well, drunk.



[ QUOTE ]
if you're pretty sold on your read of your opponent as solid, he's going to call the river with any set and maybe even two pair or AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

HE can't have flopped a set, or he would've checkraised all in on the flop, two pair is similair. AA is unlikely due to play on all streets, some of this is player dependant.

And, I have known a few opponents who may fold a rivered two pair here due to being sure I hit one of my backdoor draws.

[ML4L]

Hey Aces,

Thanks for the reply. Again, I have yet to study Omaha, I rarely play it, and when I do, I don't do exceptionally well... So, I thought that I'd throw my take out there and hoped that someone would critique me; it's the best way to learn, IMO. It seems that I'm in the minority, so I'll defer to the more experienced players...

Again, hope it worked out...

ML4L