Isolated!

Mirage 3-6


I tried my best to be tight-agressive when I was in Vegas this last week, but I ended up down $150 during my short stay. I felt pretty comfortable in the multi-way pots I was in, but in this case I was isolated and feel less comfortable about how I played.


Everyone folds to me and I limp in late-mid position with A9o (too loose? too passive? should I have raised this?). To my surprise, it's folded to the big blind who raises. The big blind is someone who I saw as a pretty good player, so I was unhappy to be isolated against him. I read this raise as a big card raise or a medium to large pocket pair raise (maybe even a small pair since he thinks he can outplay me post-flop... which he probably could do). (What would you good players raise against someone who open-limps in late-mid position?)


Flop is KQ9 of all shapes and colors. He bets. Should I fold here?


I raised him to see if I can convince him to fold. I felt that if he has a pair smaller than a Q, I might be able to convince him that I have a K or Q and get him to fold it. If he plays back at all, I'm done. (Unless I snag an A or 9 before I put more money into the pot). He only called.


The turn came J, and he checked to me. In retrospect, I think a bet here might take the pot, since it is scary for him, too (unless he has the straight). But I had made my mind up on the flop to put no more money in the pot without two pair or better. So I checked behind him.


The river was some brick, he bet and I folded.


WHat changes would you make to how I played this hand?

in this situation with A9o i'm either raising or folding, with folding being much more prevalent. you can't like A9o when you've let people limp behind you, not only do they have position on you but their range of hands is much wider when they don't have to call two bets, and A9o is the type of hand that can get you into alot of guessing games post flop.


i think your flop raise is a good move, he may fold many hands better than yours and if he 3-bets you can fold with a clear conscience. calling would be the worst play i think, folding probably isn't out of the question since the average player won't get to tricky out of their blinds as they have no position. once he backs down i think there should be no doubt in your mind that you're showing down, unless he check-raises the turn.


i would have bet the turn here almost every time, since you could get a better hand to fold to the scary board and you'll know immediately if you're beat.


when you check behind on the turn in this headsup situation i think you MUST call the river. its to much of an opportunity to bluff.

I think your biggest mistake was pre-flop. If you're going to play A9o, and I would only play it on the button, cutoff, or (maybe, in a tight game) 2 off the button, you need to raise. You are hoping to steal the blinds or get heads up. If you limp, you are making it correct for suited connectors, small pocket pairs, etc. to call behind you. If you raise, you are making it more difficult for the BB to play agressively without a good hand.


Post-flop, I don't think you played too badly, but I think you should have called the river. Betting the turn is borderline. I think it's possible, that by showing weakness pre-flop and on the turn, you allowed him to steeal a pot.

I've thought a lot about calling the river, but to me, it seems like a terrible call. What could he possibly raise pre-flop and call the flop raise with? There are just far too many things that he would raise preflop that beat me: AA, AK, AQ, AJ, ATs, KK, KQ, KJs, KTs (maybe), QQ, QJs (more doubtful), JJ, TT, 99. What things can I beat that he might raise preflop? 88, 77, 66(?). But then would he really call the raise with an underpair with all those high cards sitting out there (well, maybe if he puts me on Ax)? I think there are enough ways of losing that 5:1 isn't quite enough to make a call.


(Of course, if he was just making moves on me, then it worked quite well, but I don't think he would because I was playing noticably tight and only showed down quality cards.)

"(Of course, if he was just making moves on me, then it worked quite well, but I don't think he would because I was playing noticably tight and only showed down quality cards.)"


That's exactly why he would make a move on you. Solid players don't make moves at loose/passive opponents...


-JAA

First. $150 down is not a terrible first outing to Vegas. Don't feel bad about losing a buy-in.


A9o in mid to late position is a raising hand. By just calling in late position, you are giving away a lot of information.


If a good player (GP) is in the BB heads-up against a limping tight-passive tourist (LT), how does he play? The GP knows that LT doesn't have good cards. LT has been trying to raise a lot with the goods, so GP knows that LT has mediocre cards and little confidence in them. GP might play cards as bad as Ax, Kx, Qxs, J10o and all pairs. To get things off on the right foot, GP raises to take control of the hand.


On the flop GP bets and you raise. Most of his likely holdings have outs heads-up and he can bank on you making "smart folds" at least some of the time. Turn card is likely a blank, but it may have provided straight outs for HIS A. He checks, possible planning to check-fold. When it checks through, he knows a river bet is hugely positive EV.


The trick is to do better against the good player. If you were a good heads-up player, I would recommend betting the turn. If the board were less scary, I would let it check through. On this board, you have to bet, even though he might outplay you. Having shown weakness by checking the turn, you have to call the river. He has shown considerable weakness by not re-raising the flop and by checking the turn.


When you lose (3/4 of the time), you must not show down your losing hand. Quietly muck it and make sure that no one sees it. Toss it directly into the muck if possible.


Read the short-handed section of HPFAP and work on your short-handed skills. If you play well in these situations, they can be both fun and profitable. If your table image were tricky and aggressive in this situation, there are a number of ways that you could have won this pot w/o the best hand. However, you need the skill to prevent losing multiple bets on the turn when you are beat and drawing dead.


Good Luck,


Doug

Aaron--you have to be an accomplished player to play hands like A9u where you feel you can outplay your opponents post-flop. Look at how much trouble you got into when a 9 flopped. Do you think you would have had any less trouble if an A had flopped?? I think not. I understand that you are just learning the game, so muck these kind of hands even on the button. I think that even the very experienced players would muck this hand in most cases. It is a hand that looks much better than it really is. Also, review S & M's and other writings on when and how to play Ace hands----misplay of these hands is one of the big leaks in most LL players game. It looks like you could have at least broken even by better hand selection---not bad for a first time in Vegas. Good luck.

If this sounds like I'm being defensive... well, it's because I am.


> Look at how much trouble you got into when a 9 flopped.


The trouble, in my mind, is not that the 9 flopped, but that a K and Q also flopped, and the turn brought a J, putting three overcards and a straight on the board. Had the J not fallen, I would have called the river bet. All of this facing a raise out of the big blind really seems like a folding situation to me. If he holds a K, Q, J, or T then I'm beat and there are many ways to hold those cards and raise preflop heads up.


> Do you think you would have had any less trouble if an A had flopped?? I think not.


I probably would have called him down the whole way since it's heads up. Top pair is a pretty good hand heads up. Bottom pair with lots of other stuff going on is not.


> It looks like you could have at least broken even by better hand selection


On the basis of a single hand? This is a pretty hasty generalization.

Aaron--why do you think that A9u is rated a Group 8 hand? This is a hand that can get you in trouble and cost you money when you get part of the flop. I believe that one of the reasons a lot of hands like 8-7u. 22, 5-4s are rated above this hand is because they are easier to get away from post-flop. As I am not an expert, I use this hand, and other group 8 hands, to sometimes try to steal blinds from LP against tight players. Experts will sometimes play this hand against weak players, but I don't know any that play it against accomplished players. If there are some, I would be interested in hearing from them---Good luck.