Trying to escape from cookiecutter ABC poker

[AZK]

Hey all,

So I started off in the micro forum as I wanted to learn how to play and beat the PP micro games, where the posters generously offered good advice and described hands I want to play, hands I want to stay away from etc.

Since then, I've decided I don't really like playing online and have played in many more home games and casinos, where the play (at least in home games) is generally not as horrible as it is on PP. That being said, initially I wasn't doing well because I was playing like it was the internet with 5-6 to a flop. Namely, failure to adapt to the specific game (probably almost as important as game selection) Since then, I've done a lot of rereading and have readapted well, yet still want to improve my game, I've thought about reading the mid/high stakes forum as way of deepening my thought process when I'm at the table...are there any other suggestions? I feel like my game needs to grow out of the 'play Axs and suited connectors for value phase that is microlimits.' Thoughts?

[slavic]

You know we really don't have much to go on here. If your asking "should I drastically change my game at the mid limits?", well no you shouldn't. You should change your game based on table texture and there are many 20/40 games that play like they are party 2/4 games.

Should you read the mid limit forums, well yes, and the micros, smalls, generals and pretty much everything else but the Zoo. The Zoo is optional and you need to carry a big umbrella to avoid the BS factor.

As for playing ABC poker, well you can't always play perfect poker and ABC or Auto-pilot is pretty good when your just not quite up to playing well.

[ThePopinjay]

Read HEPFAF there's lots of non-ABC poker plays in there.

[AZK]

What I was trying to get at, is that it seems like a lot of the advice offered in micro and small stakes is geared towards beating all the loose passive fish. But very quickly this gets "boring". Aside from winning money (one of the prime motivations in playing), Poker is also an intellectual game (for me at least) so you can see how I have an urge to move on to another game in an attempt to beat it.

That being said, once you move past micro games, those strategies will get you killed in a more tight/aggressive game...w/"thinking" opponents that's why I was wondering if when not playing micro people move to reading the mid/high forum for advice that requires 2nd and 3rd level thinking... Correct me if I'm wrong...

[salty]

if you intend to just play live for a while learn to play the player as well as strategy.

[MicroBob]

i believe there is plenty of thinking at the 2/4 and 3/6 party games.....and there can even be thinking at the .50/1 and 1/2 games.

just because they are fish and can be beaten by ABC poker doesn't mean you're not allowed to actually think and attempt to maximize your win-rate.


for example, on the party 2/4 and 3/6 tables...i will respect some players' raises, and i'll re-raise to isolate against the maniacs even if i have KTo (assuming he's a wild enough maniac to raise with nothing).

now in these situations, there is some real thinking involved as to how far to go with my hand if i completely miss the flop. do i think he will fold to a bluff re-raise here?? is there enough of a chance of either hitting a pair or still beating him unimproved to warrant continuing with the hand??

what if i raise PF with AK in a multi-way pot and miss the flop?? time to decide what to do...what's the flop look like, how much in the pot, what position am i on the table??
do i bet at it?? call someone else's bet or raise??

another one i was discussing in a different thread....if i get check-raised on the river when it appears he hit a draw, do i lay-down or is there enough in the pot to warrant calling it down?? if i'm getting 10:1 on my call then i have to determine if there is only a 75% chance that i'm probably beaten (call) or if there is a 95% chance that i'm probably beaten (fold).


in short, you aren't just trying to beat the games...you are trying to extract the most money from your opponents while making the strongest play as frequently as possible.
you don't have to move up higher levels to actually begin thinking.


however, if you are stuck on wanting to pull all kinds of 'fancy plays' then maybe moving up is for you...assuming you can pull off these fancy-plays successfully against tough players.
but beware, i've heard there are some real idiots at the higher limits as well.
i certainly don't agree with the mindset here...but to each their own.

[obex]

Have you considered learning to play/beat the 6-max tables? These games involve a lot of hand-reading, opponent-reading, bluffing/semi-bluffing, aggression, etc. compared to full ring games at similar $ levels. Learning to play 6-max has been profitable, a lot more fun (because you're involved in more hands, quicker pace, etc) and has given me skills that translate well to home games and full ring games. The short-handed forum here has excellent posters and is a great place to start.