Dry Pot Betting

[tdomeski]

Looking for explanaions for a friend who made, what I believe, one of the poorest river bets I've ever seen.

Live NL home game.

A bunch of us have been playing together for over a year but there are a few new soft spots at the table.

Blinds are $2.50/5.00 with a capped buy in of $500 (however everyone usually starts the night with a $200-$400 buy in.)

Six handed.

SB has a stack of around $600, been running really good. He's one of the new soft spots at the table. Calls a lot of hands of down. Raised once pre flop and that was with KK. For the most part if he bets the river he's bluffing.

BB is a regular, break even player. Stack of around $350. Real loose pre flop, gets married to flush draws.

I'm UTG with $350. I consider myself the best player at the table, the results would concur.

UTG + 1 is awful. He's got a stack of around $300. Plays too many hands and bluffs just as many. Consistant loser.

CO is a tight ass. Only his fourth night playing with us and consequently only his fourth night playing with this much money. Seen him raise pre flop maybe only a dozen times in 4 nights and none of them with less than A-K. He's got around $100 after losing a bit.

Button(friend needing this explanation) has a stack around $400. He's my toughest opponent at the table, but I fare well against him when we get HU. He plays for the most part by the books.

Okay now on to the action. The texture of the table on this night has been pretty loose with people calling down a lot of hands. Lots of showdowns.

With that being said I'm UTG and am dealt K /images/graemlins/club.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif . . . Don't worry about my hand, it means nothing. I limp in for $5.00, six handed I raise this about 1/2 the time but decided to limp.

UTG + 1 calls

CO raises to $35. . .at this point warning bells go off that he's got a high pocket pair and with only $65 left behind him I'm thinking fold.

To my astonishment however Button cold calls $35, SB cold calls $35 and BB cold calls $35.

Auto call on my part as I know UTG + 1 wouldn't limp re raise and I also know he'll call.

6, count it 6 to the flop with a pot of $210.

The flop is a most dissapointing 10 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Checked to CO who pushes for $65 and is ALL IN (keep this in mind.)

Button calls
SB folds
BB folds
I fold
UTG + 1 calls

Turn is the 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

UTG+1 checks
Button checks behind

River is the 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

UTG + 1 checks
Button BETS $100 into the side pot.

UTG + 1 folds saying "I missed"

Button shows 10 /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif
CO shows A /images/graemlins/spade.gif A /images/graemlins/heart.gif and rakes the main pot of just over $400.

After the hand I asked the button, my friend, what he was doing by betting into the side pot with a pair of tens. He told me "I knew UTG + 1 would fold to a bet". I couldn't put into words why this was incredibly stupid and illogical and why a check behind would have sufficed. He protested that it was the "right play". Thoughts and comments, especially ones that side with me, are appreciated.

[Ian J]

If he thinks his Tens are good and will get called, why wouldn't he bet? Are you all gaining anything by the CO being broke?

[tdomeski]

CO went through two buy-ins last night. The response he made was he "knew UTG + 1 would fold". . . .But even if he thinks his tens are good, there's too good a chance he can get bluffed c/r out of the side pot. . .

[Acesover8s]

Why didn't he bet the turn? There's the real mistake.

I might check the river, but I don't think betting is that much of a mistake. IF you said he showed something like 58 then hes an idiot.

[mikech]

Seriously, not betting the turn was terrible. He's got top pair and OESD, this is his chance to create a sidepot, and then on the river he can decide whether to bet it or check. Personally I would've bet the turn and checked the river when it completed a possible flush draw, but I agree betting that third spade on the river with no sidepot to contest is a bad idea.

[jakeoneil]

As a first person observer of this hand, in fact, as the player refered to, I can tell you that the poster of this either remade the hand to make me look bad, or simply has a terrible memory... idk why he posted this in the first place... but anyways the hand went like this:

blinds - .25 .50
Max buy in - $50
*basically, divide all #s by 10

Preflop, positions the same, yet CO only raises to $2, all call.

Flop - 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif


checked to CO bets 2 dollars i called (8 /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gif) UTG + 1 calls.

Turn 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif UTG+1 checks CO moves all in for 3 dollars, i call, UTG+1 calls

River 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif UTG + 1 checks, i bet 10, he folds, i showdown against AA and lose the main pot.

IDK if this makes me look dumber, smarter, or anything, but i wanted the real hand to be posted.

[tdomeski]

What? Who are you kidding?

[jakeoneil]

okay, if you want to be a child, ill leave you be tdomeski...

[Acesover8s]

The actual amounts are mutable and unimportant. The actual hand doesn't change if its' .05-.10 or $50-$100 unless you can bet amounts that actually make an opponent change what he might do were the stakes different.

In this (version of the) hand there is still a need to bet the turn, but I would have to agree with his assertation that it is a larger mistake to bet the river here.

Either way, whether you bet or don't bet in either hand is rather academic, its the reason behind it that is important. Betting because you think another player will fold a worse hand on the end in a heads up situation is always a mistake unless you are trying to not show your hand for metagame purposes. In this hand, it clearly does not apply.

If, however, you are betting the river because you think there is a chance your opponent will fold a better hand, AND you think you have a chance to beat the all in player you have a solid bet. . .

ALSO

if you think you may get called here by a lesser hand, whether or not you can beat the allin player is also a solid reason to bet.

It sounds like you're not thinking through your hands enough. Try to slow down and think "What will happen if I check, what will happen if I bet?" etc.