Final Table - Battle to get there?

[MarkD]

So, here's the situation.

Party 50+5 Multi. We are down to eleven. Eleventh pays 330ish, 10th pays 350ish, 9th pays 550ish, 8th pays 700+, etc.

Blinds are currently T3000/6000. I have T26000ish in the BB. A player at the other table has T20000ish and has just finished paying the blinds. Everyone else in the tournament has T40k+ and I think average stack is T45k or T50k. Big stacks have about T110K

My biggest question here is one that I know is tough to answer. What is the general strategy here? How should one go about playing his hands and what should his main objective be? (I know winning, but I'm talking in terms of strategic goals to achieve that ultimate goal since it's such an up hill battle for me - what should I be aiming for?)

Ok... onto the specific situation at hand. Blinds are T3k/6k and I post the BB with T26k. Table is 6 handed and UTG opens for T16k. Folded to me and I have K/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif. What is the play and why? UTG had been playing straight forward and fairly solid. I hadn't seen him get out of line yet but I also hadn't seen him do much.

I felt like surviving was going to be tough without building some chips and I was shooting for a 9th place (or better) finish since the difference between 10th and 11th was essentially nothing. With this in mind and a situation which I thought was most likely a coinflip I pushed.

[faughtandone]

i am certainly no expert on tourney strategy and of course your own goals should take precedence, however in this case i would rather push w/a 6-7 over a K10 as above all i don't want to be dominated. i think it can be good to take a gamble w/ two live cards before your stack gets so small that doubling up won't matter. however in this case i think you're best bet is to fold as this is an UTG player who you say is solid. you can wait for a better spot.

[dmk]

Muck. You'd rather be entering the pot w/ a raise than calling one. On top of that, you could be dominated. Look for a better spot. I'm not one to advocate limping into the money (or final table), but this just clearly isn't the best spot.

[sdplayerb]

KT vs a UTG raise is worthless, fold in a second.
I'm as aggressive as they get late, but you want to be the initial raiser here.

[Tosh]

If the raise came from LP I like a push more but UTG raises from seemingly solid players should be respected. Muck.

[MarkD]

Ok, everyone clearly echoes the conclusion I made after I busted out of the tournament. KTs just isn't the hand to push on here - I'd rather be the initial raiser than the caller. But, I'm much more concerned with the underlying strategy and thought process that I should be thinking about in terms of the tournament than I am with the individual consideration of this one solitary hand. So, anyone have any thoughts they would like to share with regards to this? I think it is more important to discuss the thought process one should use to govern one's decisions at this stage of the tournament than it is to discuss this simple hand that I screwed up.

(For the record, UTG had 77 and called my push and neither of us improved so I ended up in a coin flip situation.)

[Ian J]

My general strategy for any bubble situation w/ a somewhat short stack (8xBB or less) is to push with good hands and push some more with hands that aren't as good when first in from LP. I hate calling off my chips, which is essentially what you're doing here, since he's calling regardless. Basically, what I'm saying is, give yourself a shot to win each pot you play in this situation uncontested. This is all unless you have a huge hand obviously.

[MarkD]

So what's this bubble everyone talks about? I don't have TPFAP yet.

[MarkD]

Agreed. I suck.

[askkkkk]

The strategy/thought process depends on 2 things. Cards you're getting and your goal. Most important part here is ofcourse your goal. If you are short-stacked adn your goal is to finish 9th out of 11 left as you states, then you should play as conservative as possible under such high blind situations. So if u can have some1 blind out before you that is the optimal situations. With this strategy u are avoiding all coin flips such as u created for urself. In such a case even folding JJ/QQ won't be too bad, if u are almost certain that 2 stacks are almost out. However, if you want to finish as high as possible, then ofcourse everything reverses. You will want to push hard on any +EV. So if u got 22 u go all in vs AKs, pushing ur 1% edge. Also building ur stack is a priority so if no1 limps before u in late position, u move all in picking up small pots(blinds)if u are lucky. Ofcourse cards often dictate how u play, but i assume at this time u will avoid all connectors and all but strongest of drawing hands unless you plan to bluff with them. Whenever u get a great hand u want to maximize it so you consider position, opponent, # of limpers and etc. Hence, certain aspects u can decide beforehand while others u will have to do on the go. Like u'd slowplay KK/AA with no limpers in late position vs raising if there are limpers, hoping u'll be reraised all in.

[Martin Aigner]

Mark,

one thing I´m not quite sure about your post is your stack. You had 26k after of before posting the blind? As I understand it you had 26 before posting, which means you have 17k after posting the SB. 17k isn´t very much when blinds are 3k/6k but it might be enough to steal the blinds. Therefore I´d be inclined to muck the hand if the table was reasonable tight and you were positive that blind stealing was possible with 17k. If you had 26k after posting the chances of being able to steal the blinds are obviously way bigger and the KTs is even more a fold in this situation.

If for some reason you decide to play this hand (e.g. the raise came from the button) you shouldn´t move in preflop. Just call and bet any flop. This way you might get rid of a hand like 77.

Best regards

Martin Aigner

[MarkD]

I had 26k before posting the blind so after I posted I had 20k left.

[ QUOTE ]
If for some reason you decide to play this hand (e.g. the raise came from the button) you shouldn´t move in preflop. Just call and bet any flop. This way you might get rid of a hand like 77.


[/ QUOTE ]

I thought of this line the next day and I completely agree that this is the correct way to play the hand if I decide to play it. I think folding is the best line and pushing all in is the worst.

[MarkD]

Well, my goal wasn't to finish 9th, my ultimate goal was to win or finish top 3. I mentioned 9th place because that was a temporary goal. I guess what I meant to say was I was indifferent about finishing 10th or 11th but would have been happy to move into 9th place.

Thanks for the inciteful post. I still think playing a small stack here is difficult though as even if I saved my money here and made it through the blinds I would only have 17k left and the blinds are quickly going to be 4/8k (3 minutes I think) at which point my 17k all in won't be a very big raise.