Playing a few hands with position against somewhat of a maniac. [Archive]

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jedi

05-30-2004, 02:48 AM

I just want to review some hands against the same player. He's a bit loose/maniac type pre-flop, but I thought he made some decent decisions post-flop. But who knows? Maybe I can't judge play either.

Hand 1
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Jedi is MP1 with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG (Villian) calls, UTG+1 folds, Jedi calls, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players) 
BB checks, Villian bets, Jedi raises, BB folds, Villian calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players) 
Villian checks, Jedi bets, Villian calls.

River: (5.75 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players) 
Villian checks, Jedi bets, Villian raises, Jedi calls.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB
Main Pot: 9.75 BB, between Villian and Jedi. > Pot won by Villian (9.75 BB).

Results in white below: 
Villian shows Kh 7d (two pair, kings and sevens).
Jedi shows As 2s (one pair, aces).
Outcome: Villian wins 9.75 BB. 

Hand 2

Preflop: Jedi is BB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button (Villian) calls, SB folds, Jedi checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players) 
Jedi checks, MP3 checks, Villian bets, Jedi raises, MP3 folds, Villian calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players) 
Jedi bets, Villian calls.

River: (5.75 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players) 
Jedi bets, Villian raises, Jedi calls.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB
Main Pot: 9.75 BB, between Villian and Jedi. > Pot won by Villian (9.75 BB).

Results in white below: 
Jedi shows Ah 4d (two pair, aces and sixes).
Villian shows 6d 9c (three of a kind, sixes).
Outcome: Villian wins 9.75 BB. 

Hand 3

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Jedi is MP2 with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. CO posts a blind of $2.
UTG folds, UTG+1 (Villian) raises, MP1 folds, Jedi 3-bets, MP3 folds, CO (poster) folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 (Villian) calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players) 
BB checks, Villian checks, Jedi bets, BB raises, Villian calls, Jedi calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players) 
BB bets, Villian raises, Jedi folds, BB calls.

River: (12.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players) 
BB checks, Villian bets, BB calls.

Final Pot: 14.25 BB
Main Pot: 14.25 BB, between Villian and BB. > Pot won by Villian (14.25 BB).

Results in white below: 
BB shows Kh 9s (one pair, kings).
Villian shows Ad 3h (straight, five high).
Outcome: Villian wins 14.25 BB. 

Okay. How was this played all around? I think I'm getting a bit gun shy against this guy. Give me your best shot. I need to hear some critiquing after today.

Dynasty

05-30-2004, 03:01 AM

The secret ingredient you're missing is to not let the dealer put your opponent's five-outers on the river.

Nate tha' Great

05-30-2004, 07:32 AM

Like Dynasty said, there's not much that you can do if he continues to hit draws that he doesn't really have the odds to continue with; you're making Sklansky Dollars from him.

I do think, however, that you're probably playing your aces too fast in hands #1 and 2. Top pair, weak kicker is not a tremendous hand ... but it's also not a tremendously *vulnerable* hand (e.g. your opponents do not have that many outs against it if they're behind).

In both cases, you're dealing with situations in which the pot is small and there's only two opponents, one of which is a confirmed LAG. I think you're best off calling his bet in Hand 1 and either raising the turn (since he might be on a flush draw) or calling the turn and raising the river or maybe calling both the turn and the river. In Hand 2 I'd prefer either to bet out on the flop (and probably 3-bet a raise) or to check-call and wait until later in the hand to reveal that you have an ace. A lot of pretty good players routinely misplay their one-pair-ace hands, and it looks like you're one of them.

jedi

05-30-2004, 10:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Like Dynasty said, there's not much that you can do if he continues to hit draws that he doesn't really have the odds to continue with; you're making Sklansky Dollars from him.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was what I was concerned about. Am I pumping up the pot too much to make it correct for him to draw to his 5-outer? I was on somewhat of an isolation play when I raised in these cases because I wanted it heads up with him and get the other guys out, but if the other players have an Ace as well, I'm not chasing them out anyways. I was pretty sure that I had the best hand against Villian. I wasn't quite as sure against the other player.

[ QUOTE ]

I do think, however, that you're probably playing your aces too fast in hands #1 and 2. Top pair, weak kicker is not a tremendous hand ... but it's also not a tremendously *vulnerable* hand (e.g. your opponents do not have that many outs against it if they're behind).

In both cases, you're dealing with situations in which the pot is small and there's only two opponents, one of which is a confirmed LAG. I think you're best off calling his bet in Hand 1 and either raising the turn (since he might be on a flush draw) or calling the turn and raising the river or maybe calling both the turn and the river. In Hand 2 I'd prefer either to bet out on the flop (and probably 3-bet a raise) or to check-call and wait until later in the hand to reveal that you have an ace. A lot of pretty good players routinely misplay their one-pair-ace hands, and it looks like you're one of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm, I'm still trying to figure out how to play these types of hands and will probably always be doing it.

Thanks for the advice.

anatta

05-30-2004, 10:47 AM

You asked about "pumping the pot too much" to make it correct for him to draw out on you. This usually applies to preflop play - pot manipulation and all that. By raising his flop bet, you are charging him to draw out on you. You can charge him more by smooth calling flop and raising turn, but I usually raise top pair on the flop, but headsup I might wait to raise.

jedi

05-30-2004, 01:02 PM

Any comments on hand 3? I kind of feel like a wuss, but I was pretty sure that the fact the other guy called meant he had a King. I had NO clue that maniac made a straight though.

Wussy laydown, or the correct one?

adanthar

05-30-2004, 01:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Any comments on hand 3? I kind of feel like a wuss, but I was pretty sure that the fact the other guy called meant he had a King. I had NO clue that maniac made a straight though.

Wussy laydown, or the correct one?

[/ QUOTE ]On that board, with those opponents and getting 8:1, I'd draw to my flush and queens. It sure looks like the maniac may've made one, but if he's a maniac his diamonds may also add up to a 9. If he does have a low flush, I've 9 outs- questionable how good 7 of them are, but probably enough to call.

Oh well. At least you saved 2 bets.

anatta

05-30-2004, 03:20 PM

I am not a big fan of calling raises on the turn drawing to one card queen high flushes. Yes a queen could be an out, but... To me the fold is good.