Was this a little overkill???

[Gomez22]

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+1 (t325.00)
UTG+2 (t850.00)
Gomez22 (t1205.00)
MP2 (t1290.00)
MP3 (t1095.00)
CO (t1025.00)
Button (t805.00)
SB (t1775.00)
BB (t880.00)
UTG (t750.00)

Preflop: Gomez22 is MP1 with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of t15.
UTG calls t30, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls t30, Gomez22 calls t30, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, <font color="CC3333">SB (poster) raises to t60</font>, BB calls t30, UTG calls t30, UTG+2 calls t30, Gomez22 calls t30.

Flop: (t300) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(5 players) </font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, Gomez22 checks.

Turn: (t300) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(5 players) </font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets t75</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+2 folds, <font color="CC3333">Gomez22 raises to t1145</font>, SB folds.

Final Pot: t1520
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: t450 (t450), won by Gomez22.</font>
<font color="#990066">Pot 2: t1070 (t1070), overbet by Gomez22.</font>

[Peter Harris]

considering my value betting is inept, here's what i posit:

You have the nut straight. SB bets into you; i would raise to about T300. That way, they are not getting odds to draw to the flush or a paired board, the only two things that you'd lament in this situation. The flush is less likely as you hold A /images/graemlins/heart.gif with K /images/graemlins/heart.gif J /images/graemlins/heart.gif being on the table. The only "logical" [heh heh, what limit you playing?!] flush draw is Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif T /images/graemlins/heart.gif or a suited connector in SB.

If you get sucked out, you still made the right play; more often than not if SB is chasing they'll miss.

The reraise was overkill in my book; but, like i said, value betting is what needs refining in my play...

Regards,
Pete H.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

You played it fine. Broadway is one straight you should be wary about slowplaying. Why give anybody the chance to draw to a chop, or worse, give 2 pair the chance to outdraw you?

[Gomez22]

I looked at it from your side as well, Pete, and here's was what I thought....

It's still early in the tourney, and my opponent, being chip leader, may very well call without proper odds to see if he could bust or cripple a threat. Now, even though I thought he probably wouldn't call a T300 bet on the turn, I wasn't going to take any chances on giving him 1 card. He was going to have to out-draw me on the river if he wanted this pot and he was going to have to pay through the nose just to see the card. I don't like to take chances like that early on in a tourney - I'll put all my chips in, but only if I feel that I'm an overwhelming favorite....

[RobGW]

Why are you so afraid of the flush? You have the nuts at this point, and if he is drawing, he only has a 20% chance of hitting another heart. I would want him to call. Bet an amount that gives him incorrect odds to call, but hope that he does call. ie. $300. He may not even be drawing to the flush. Anyways, you have position, so if a heart does come and he comes out firing, you dont have to pay him off. When you have the nuts, you have to get the most $$ you can out of it. It doesn't happen that often. Don't play scared.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Why are you so afraid of the flush?

It's not just the flush possibility that indicates you should not slowplay here.

There are 22 cards that could seriously impact his implied odds: 9 make a flush, 5 more potentially make a split pot, and 8 more put a possible full house on the board. Thus his ability to maximize his gain on the river is severely impacted.

[SoloAJ]

I suppose from my angle it depends. Considering it is early on I would actually probably want a call here. That said, I wouldn't have chosen to go allin (though it seems fine to me). I probably would have raised him about 4 or 5 times also and tried getting his chips that way. The way he is betting it seems unlikely to me that a fullhouse is something to worry about. So and chop and the flush are the only worries here for me I guess.

He checked the flop and bet 75 on the turn. Seems to me its more of a feeler bet. So I'm not sure I would assume he's going to call that big bet just because he raised preflop.

I can't argue the play but I would have probably went SOMEWHAT slower with it and tried to extract some chips.

[Profit]

im not going all in here, i would prefer a call a call of 300 or so. I would try getting a bit more out of the nut str8 than a 200 pot.

[RobGW]

If he has an A and wants to chase the Q he has only 3 outs. Same thing if he has the Q and needs the A. So if he wants to chase the str8 for a chop with only 3 outs then let him. You will take his money over 90% of the time and the other 10% will be a split pot. I am not advocating a slowplay, I just think he should bet the pot. That will deny his opponent the correct odds to chase. Give him a chance to make a mistake. Just my opinion though.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

But the key point is, almost half the time, the poster can't play the river aggressively (flush card or paired board) or is playing for no more gain (another Broadway card). I'll continue to say that one big mistake many players make in NL is giving up a sure win to go for a big win. I don't like the risk-return, especially in a short tournament.

[Peter Harris]

If you bet T300 and SB calls, they are first to act on the river. If a scare card comes and they do set you, then at least you have the decision.

If you fold the river, 800 chips at 15/30 and then 25/50 is still a huge stack, with plenty of room to move.

While i know it is not good play to take on a larger stack, i genuinely believe you should have extracted it off SB here, as you still have lebensraum should SB catch their card.

But i do appreciate your position, as i have been there before. I lament not extracting the moolah, though...

Pete

[Gomez22]

[ QUOTE ]
If you bet T300 and SB calls, they are first to act on the river. If a scare card comes and they do set you, then at least you have the decision.


[/ QUOTE ]

At this point, I DON'T WANT to have to make a tight call, though, and if a scare cards comes on the river, and he bets into me, more than likely I'm going to have to let the hand go(this of course depends on the card)....

I wanted to put the ball in his court and let him decide if he wanted to gamble for a mountain of chips, and he refused to, which was fine by me at that point.

BTW - I DID go on to win this tourney, so I'm rather satisfied in that respect.

Thanks for the reply.... I do see both sides of the coin, but I'm the type(right now) that doesn't like to take risks in a SNG until it gets down to bubble time(and sometimes even not there).....

'Mez