QQ in an ugly spot

Hey,


I am trying out a different online room so I don't know much about the players. Somewhat loose passive 5-10 with about 38% seeing the flop.


There is an early position limper and I raise with the Qh Qd in middle position. A late position player cold calls, the big blind calls and the limper calls. Four of us seeing the flop.

Flop: Ah9h9d

The big blind come out firing with a bet. Early position player folds. This is where I may have goofed up. I just called. The late position player folds.

Turn: 7c

The big blind bets and I fold. I'm not proud of how I played this hand. Comments are welcome.

knowing your player helps a lot in this spot. there are 8 sb in the pot with bb comes out firing. without knowning your players, i think folding on the turn can't be too bad. the player probably has a weak ace. he could be on the flush draw, but the probability of pair ace is higher when people defend their bb.

You don't have odds to call to your 2 outs. The only hand SB would bet out with here that you can beat would possibly be a flush draw. Having raised before the flop, I doubt he would bet into you with a flush draw on this flop. I would just fold to the flop bet.


Calling on the flop and folding to a turn bet is inconsistant. It looks like you realized one small bet too late that you should fold.

If you think he has an ace fold right away. If you think he doesn't, than stay till the end. Very seldom will a Q come up on the turn. So, why would you want to look at that card only?

studpoker,


I don't think this is such a bad play. I love to steal on a flop like this from the BB. So his bet doesn't necessarily mean you are beat. You are getting 9 to 1 on the call and the other two players are out. If he is bluffing he will check the turn then you can decide whether to take the card or bet. His bet seems to indicate to me that he has a 9 and now your fold is good. I don't believe a weak A would bet into the pre-flop raiser here. You could be waiting for the turn with AA or AK. I think you played it just fine. Don't be too quick to give up on that hand. If the cold caller had called the flop or raised it, you can safely fold.

4 of you seeing the flop for 2 bets, plus the 1 bet of SB, so 9SB in the pot. One more bet to you makes it 10SB.


Let's assume you know the guy after you will fold. Let's further assume after you call the first player will bet and you call on both the turn and river. Then there will be 19SB in the pot at the end. Your EV is 19p - 5, which means p must be >= 5/19 for you to break even or come out ahead. Let's call it 25%. There's around 8% or so chance of your helping by the river. So if there's a greater than 17% chance you're ahead of the first player when he bets into you, AND you know the guy after you will fold, then you can call.


The exact math isn't important. Obviously you don't have to time to calculate all this out. It's a worthwhile exercise to go through away from the table because it lets you know to fold in this situation unless


1) The first player plays unorthodoxly (most players will not lead out with nothing in this situation against 3 other guys, but some will -- must know your opponent)

2) You know the guy behind you will fold (some players will fold out of turn, or predictably display their intentions)


If you were acting last, so two guys had folded before you, then you could call if it were likely the first guy would bet with nothing. Most players will fall in the category of routinely making that play, or routinely not, so your decision should be cut and dry.


You mentioned in the original post that you "just called". This makes it sound like you were thinking about raising. It's hard to see raising being good here, with one exception. If you're behind, there's nothing to gain by raising, and if you're ahead you're better off calling and inducing bluffs. The exception is if you're pretty sure you're ahead of the first guy and want to make sure you get the second guy out (who would have to call 2 bets).

If the SB has a weak hand (say a pocket pair lower than QQ) or a dry bluff, he may stop betting on the turn, for fear that his opponent is slowplaying something big. There are not many reasonable calling hands on that flop. If he fails to bet the turn, now studpoker has to call the river. He may have a weak ace, but he may be bluffing.


Calling bets like this on the flop is not so bad if your opponent plays with only one bullet in the gun and lacks follow through. That is a viable reason to call here and fold on the turn, especially if you are viewed as tight player who will not make calls here.


But honestly, I think this hand was a fold on the flop.


Mike