PokerStars or PartyPoker

[reCCos]

Hi all:

This is my first time on these forums, and I was directed here by a friend I play poker with IRL. My first question, as I am just getting started with online poker is where to play and how to start playing. I am a very good live player (i.e. 3 days of local poker games and I'm +$200 in profit). I am currently reading The Theory of Poker, and I would like to start playing online poker once I finish this book. I want to be a profit player, not semi-pro or anything, but to make like $200/wk? I know a lot of the players on these forums started where I am starting so I am asking all of you to share your beginnings with me, so it can better help me to get on the right start to a successful online poker career. Basically, should I start at PartyPoker or PokerStars and what stakes should I play and what approach I should have to all of this. Thanks and I look forward to talking with everyone.

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

Three days means little. Read a few books, read a lot here. Start at micro limits and build a bankroll. Post hands on the appropriate forum and be open to criticism of your play.

Oh, and tighten up a bit (never played with you, but its almost always good advice)

[whiskeytown]

start at partypoker - Party's ring games are easier -

If you got 200 bucks - start at 1/2 or 2/4 and work on building up your bankroll - I have 200 on Party right now, and I'll either play 2/4 or 2 1/2 games - but a good loose 2/4 game is worth the attention on it's own.

pick games with high average pots...(click on the right hand column to sort it from highest to lowest) - sometimes the lists are a bit long, but anything with 8-10 times the BB in an average pot is juicy - and usually there's one or two of those with only 1 or 2 players waiting - and then play tight ABC poker -

and with pots that big - observe- is it cause everyone limps in? - then be more ready to play suited connectors. - Is it because a fish raises a lot? - play more hands like KJ offsuit vs. him and repop him more often to get it heads up... - basic theory of poker stuff - (I'm rereading it right now...good stuff)

anything with 6-8 times the BB ($24-30 in a 2/4 game) usually ain't worth the trouble - if you can beat it, great...but they're usually too tight. Maybe you'll feel like raising the first 5 pots preflop...it might bring up the avg...LOL

that value assessment goes down, BTW as you go up in limits....that's just waht I've noticed in 2/4 play recently - I barely broke even in a PS game last night after 2 hrs cause av. pot size dropped to 24 bucks before I got out. - so game selection is VERY important....

and don't play on a table with whiskeytown...I'll take your money...LOL

pax
RB

[davidross]

I don't think it matters too much where you start, if you are any good you should be able to breat the easiest games at any site, Stars, PArty or Paradise. Download the software from all 3 and try it out and see which you like best. Party has the most players so your game selection will be better. Stars in know for having better tournament software. I would check and see which has the best deposit promotions and use that to decide.

You can't avoid the learning curve. When I first started I would win at the lowest limit, then give it back when I moved up. That happened again and again before I would move up and be able to win at a new level. You will run into bad luck, and better players, so be prepared for some tough runs, they will happen.

[deacsoft]

Welcome to 2+2 and listen to Mr. Ross. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]

pick games with high average pots...(click on the right hand column to sort it from highest to lowest) - sometimes the lists are a bit long, but anything with 8-10 times the BB in an average pot is juicy - and usually there's one or two of those with only 1 or 2 players waiting - and then play tight ABC poker -

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree to some extent. At the lower limits, I would consider 7-9BB to be about an average pot, 10-12 or more to be above average. In any case, I think that low to average size games are easier and more profitable, especially for a beginner. Above average pots are usually the result of a couple of players who play more aggressively than average. This can be difficult to handle for a new player. Smaller pots are the result of passive players and calling stations. Personally, I prefer these games because then I am the most aggressive player at the table. I like being the big frog in a small pond. If a game gets aggressive I can adjust to it, but a very new player is typically uncomfortable with aggressive players, and will lay down too many good hands. I'd say start small, and move up with experience.

[reCCos]

Alright, thanks for the advice all. I take it all into heavy consideration coming from all of you. I need to know something else: how different is online poker from real poker? I do well in all or most of my live games but I am wondering how I need to change my game for the online play. I will deposit $200 into one of the programs, but from what I am told already I want to invest my money in either PP or PS. I just do not know which to choose. I've played play money on both and they both seem feasible, but how do you make the decision on where to put your money? /images/graemlins/ooo.gif Anyways, I will play tight, but I also do not know the right approach yet -- I suppose that is the "learn from experience" part of it all. Also, I would like more input on what stakes I should start at. If I am putting in $200 roughly and I am new to online poker, where should I play and how? I heard the .01/.02 and .02/.04 are not even worth practicing on if you plan to play $1/$2 because the betting and gameplay is so different. So, I suppose I will stay away from those tables. Thank you all again and feel free to post beyond what I have to say, even anticipate my further questions if you will. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Skyler]

Indeed, playing anything below .50/1.00 is not worth your time if you're used to winning at the B&M. Your hourly average won't even qualify as minimum wage.

[phishfan]

If you are just starting out playing poker online, you should put $50 into pokerstars and start playing the .02/.04 and .05/.10 games. They play alot like the .50/1.00 games at party so they will be good practice while you get used to playing online. Once you get comfortable playing online you can switch to party poker.

[WillMagic]

I, personally, would recommend Party, because there is better game selection, but really you can't make a mistake going with either party or stars.

One thing I have to warn you about - you need to make sure that you aren't cocky. Cockiness can lead you to play hands that you shouldn't. Realize that the $200 you have won with friends may very well have been a run of good luck. To become a consistent winner, you are going to have to take the game seriously, read the Theory of Poker, and read and post on this forum.

You are actually in very good shape, since you found this forum before you started playing. 95% of the players out there have no clue.

Good luck, and aces to you.

Will

[ewile]

I think that you should start no higher than the Party .50/1.00 tables, and possibly lower at the Stars micro-limit tables.
That "they play nothing like the 2/4 dollar table" stuff is BS. If you can't beat the micro-limit games you WILL NOT beat the higher limit games. Start low and work up as you prove yourself to be a winning player.
You will gain alot of practice and experience and you may save yourself alot of money.
Read and reread TOP, Winning Low Limit Hold'em, and Hold'em Poker for advanced Players.

[reCCos]

Why does everyone play at Party? I've heard better players are at PS? Top players in WSOP were from PS right? I am not stating facts, just questions. I am having my friend transfer $100 into my PS account, and if I really should be playing PP then let me know. I am reading (and re-reading) Winning Low Limit Hold 'em and ToP right now. Thanks again.

[OnlinePokerCoach]

Don't ask why. Just play where the fish are: Party/Empire. The ring games at Stars are just too tight. Perhaps the recent final table showings of Stars players will amount to some newbies joining Stars. Otherwise, Party/Empire is where the profit is right now.

You will find that online poker can be much more profitable than live poker for many reasons: faster games, multiple table play, no drive to the casino, no tipping, etc.

OPC

[phishfan]

I don't know why the average online player plays at party poker, probably because they advertised more, but the average online winning player on this site plays at party because that's where all the weak players/games are. Sure, if you want to play against better players on average and test your skills than play at poker stars, but if you want to make money, play party poker.

Actually, you shouldn't take my word for it. Go see for yourself. Download both poker stars and party poker's software and open up a .50/1.00, 1/2, or 2/4 on each and watch the games.
Also $200 isn't really alot of money for .50/1.00. If you are sure you are a winning player then yeah $200 would probably be enough, but anything higher than .50/1.00 would be more like gambling than poker. That's why I suggested the .05/.10 games at poker stars. With $50 you can play a long time without worrying about fluctuations and find out how your game stacks up against other players. If you just tear up those games than move up to party. If you find out your game needs some work than you will have saved money because your mistakes only cost you .10 or .20 cents instead of $1 or $2.

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
I am a very good live player (i.e. 3 days of local poker games and I'm +$200 in profit).

[/ QUOTE ]

this does NOT mean you are a very good player.

in fact, your belief that these incredibly short-term results are proof of your talent probably indicates that you are not a very good player (or at least don't have a very good understanding of the fluctuations inherent in the game).

i know a couple others already brought it up...but i think it is worth re-emphasizing for our new friend here.

it is very very easy for a newcomer to make too much out of their short-term results...you are not the first person to have done this and won't be the last.
but it will be best for your chances of long-term success if you understand that fluctuations are natural in this game. consequently, a lousy player can easily win over 3 days of live play just by getting lucky...just as a very good player can easily lose over 3 days of live play just by being unlucky.


however, you were directed to this site presumably by a fellow 2+2'er so perhaps he is in a better position to judge your playing potential.


yes, there are some very strong players at stars...including the last 2 WSOP champions. but for many of us, that is a reason NOT to play at stars. we like playing with lousier players because they are more profitable.
if your goal is to try to make extra-bucks per week then why would you want to play with good players (possibly better than you)??

david is correct in that it doesn't really matter which site you choose. you can put 200 in each and see which site you prefer.
there is no definitive answer to 'which site is best??'. each has their postivies and drawbacks.

it's like asking whether you should have McDonalds or Wendys for lunch...such a tough decision and you cant decide so you came to us so that we could inform you which one is 'better'.