Single table Tournament poker

[AleoMagus]

Hi all

I may be getting a bit ahead of myself here, but I have decided to post anyways to get a feel for whether my efforts of late have been in vain.

I am currently writing a book on single table tournament strategy

How many would be interested in such a book, and more importantly, how many would be interested in such a book from someone like myself?

The thing is, I am the worst kind of poker author, which is to say that my poker is probably not as good as it should be in order to write a book. I am not a world class player but I am a winning small buy-in single table tournament player who has some things to say.

This all started when I made a post on the one-table-torneys forum called 'How to beat the party 10+1'. This post I have since lived to regret as so many are hailing it as a great initial guide for playing sngs - which it is not.

That post would probably be a good place to start for a very bad player, but I knew I could do better and I intended to improve upon it and post again. Well, about 40 pages later I am still writing and a book is starting to seem like a better idea. My intention is to self publish through an excellent agency (trafford publishing) here in Victoria, though I would entertain other options if they came up.

What seems like a better idea to me than publishing by myself, is to seek out a top player known to frequent the large buy-in sngs and have him/her review and make additions to the original material. In this way, I can add some credibility beyond my own very limited experience.

This said, a part of me hesitates to look too high for help as the book is not geared towards big buy-in sng strategy anyways and the game is somewhat different at that level. In addition, while I do not like the strategy card style of my initial sng stratgey post, I do want to present at least an introductory approach to sng strategy that is formulaic and based more on solid play than creativity and advanced concepts that may be beyond the average player. I will discuss the drawbacks of overly formulaic play and will stress the neccessity of more advanced play if a player ever wants to move beyond 30+3, but the first goal for my intended audience is becoming a winner at 30+3 and below.

A few other points which I'd like feedback on

One idea which I have been toying with lately is to include a number (1-5 most likely) of complete (winning) tournament summaries with commentary throughout. This would be presented in a sort of Chernev 'Logical chess: move by move' style where a reader could follow along and go through the decision making process along with the book. Would this be too cumbersome or would this add greatly to such a book?

Another Idea which I fully intend to implement is a section on the mathematics of sng record keeping. This would include such basic calculations as ITM, ROI, etc... as well as more advanced statistical info like standard deviation, risk of ruin based on win rate and current bankroll, and % confidence in results to +/- $x.

Also, I have not yet written any kind of introductory material. Does it make any sense at all to explain to a person buying a book on single table tournament strategy what single table tournaments are, the rules of poker, basic hold'em concepts, etc...? I think not, but maybe I just don't want to go through the drudgery of writing about all that.

The book is geared towards online tournaments with a structure like that of Partypoker. I fully intend to discuss appropriate startegy changes for better tourney structures like stars as well, but the emphasis will be on the party skins.

Finally, This book is thus far limited exclusively to No-Limit Hold'em sngs. How important is it for a book of this type to cover limit Hold'em or even other poker game types?

Given my current rate of writing, I expect to have about a 120-150 page manuscript (more than this if I include tournament walkthroughs) availiable before August. Assuming 1-3 months beyond that for professional editing, expert technical review and trafford's setup/print time, I'd expect this book to be avaliable before Oct or Nov at the latest. Again, it is possible that I am getting ahead of myself, but I feel like I cannot be the only one who sees a need for this particular type of book and I think that speed is important for this project.

Any comments appreciated
Brad S

[Daliman]

I'm interested.

daliman13@yahoo.com

[GoblinMason (Craig)]

Yea, I would probably purchase a copy.

It seems to be along the lines of Winning Low Limit Hold'Em by Lee Jones. The interduction of his book tells who should read the book (not total newbs, but not pros) is an effective one. I'd suggest looking at it for ideas.

[byronkincaid]

Hi Brad

I know nothing about writing or publishing but as a small buy in SNG player you may be interested in my thoughts.

[ QUOTE ]
How many would be interested in such a book

[/ QUOTE ]

I honestly don't think you'll sell more than a few thousand tops but I hope I'm wrong. How many internet poker books have been written? How many have been sold? Your market is even smaller than this but if you're gonna do it anyway which it seems like you are.........

[ QUOTE ]
My intention is to self publish

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? This means you have to advertise, market and sell the book yourself doesn't it? There are lots of publishers of gambling books, why not send in a couple of chapters to them and see what they say? You don't need to be published by 2+2 (although that would be nice eh?) Perhaps someone in The Gamblers Book Store or somewhere like that could point you in the right direction.

[ QUOTE ]
seek out a top player known to frequent the large buy-in sngs

[/ QUOTE ]

I have just read that some guy called fossil somethingorother has played a few $200s. Perhaps he'd read through your book for a slice of the profits.

[ QUOTE ]
first goal for my intended audience is becoming a winner at 30+3 and below.


[/ QUOTE ]

I sit at work with a calculator playing with ROIs, Buy ins and number of SNGs I could play in a day. One day I'm gonna resign and earn a living multi tabling $33s /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif. Hurry up with this damn book will ya.

[ QUOTE ]
a number (1-5 most likely) of complete (winning) tournament summaries

[/ QUOTE ]

This is where you'll need to be a good writer. Hand Historys bore me to tears, even Bisons converted hands (brilliant though his program is) make my eyes glaze over. But some people can write how a hand developed in a fasinating, edge of the seat kinda way. I don't know how to do it but this is gonna be vital if you don't want people falling asleep. If you can do it in an interesting way then I'd say put them in.

[ QUOTE ]
a section on the mathematics of sng record keeping

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah good idea I'll need to know all this stuff brfore I turn pro /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
have not yet written any kind of introductory material

[/ QUOTE ]

You've got to put something in I think even if it's just in a glossery at the back of the book or something. As another poster said you may get an idea from WLLH.

[ QUOTE ]
This book is thus far limited exclusively to No-Limit Hold'em sngs

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd stick to what you know after all Masons probably gonna review it /images/graemlins/confused.gif A lot of ideas will be the same whatever the game won't they? I dunno I'm an exclusivley No Limit wannabe sit at home in me pants all day pro SNG player /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Anyway I'll be the first to buy it however you sort it. I won't even wait for that Mason review /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Good Luck

[PDX_David]

I think this is a pretty great idea. Wish I had the talent and the know how to do it myself.

A few things...

You said you were not sure about an introduction listing rules and such. Since you are aiming this book at low limit buyins I think it is something that is needed. Most players at the lower limit buyins are new. Plus it is fills pages. People that know will skip it. People that don't know will say the book is incomplete. I would say remember your target audience.

On the complete had history of 1-5 tournies. Personally, I would love it. I really like being able to get in and see why people did what they did, or tried to do something. I say include it, or atleast send me a couple with your analysis.

Publishing, I have no idea. I am sure you will get better info from others, but you might check in to an e-book if nothing else pans out. You might check in to that anyway because of the profit margin. I don't know. More to think about on that because of sharing etc...

I really don't see much out there for this target, yet. If you can get something good out quicker than others you win.

Good luck with it. If it isn't an arm and a leg I would pick it up.

pdx

If nothing else comes of it, I would love to give it a read.

[Leonardo]

You probably wont make a cent out of it, publishing is a tough business from what i understand. But thats not really the point from what I understand. Why not make a web page and put all the information there? You might even get some advertising dollars from party or stars if you mention that your hand histories are from there, and you get a tonne of viewers. Sounds like a good idea though.
cheers
Leonardo

[PDX_David]

You might also check in to on demand publishing. Poeple order a book and it is printed and shipped. No stock no unsold books etc..

[cjromero]

I would buy a copy, Aleo. The NLHE guide you posted on the single table tourney forum has been incredibly helpful.

[Moyer]

I would buy a copy too, just because I read your Party SnG guide.

I hope you've talked to Mason about this. I don't know if 2+2 would be interested, but it's definately worth a shot.

[AleoMagus]

[ QUOTE ]
I hope you've talked to Mason about this. I don't know if 2+2 would be interested, but it's definately worth a shot.


[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't, and to be honest, I don't think I will

I highly respect the 2+2 publishing franchise, but I just don't think a book like this would fit in very well, even if brilliant.

2+2 books seem to have a certain longeveity which books on specific internet play may not. Moreover, 2+2 books seem more rooted in theory and optimal play than the book I am describing. To be frank, my book will contain a great deal of sub-optimal strategic advice geared at keeping the average player out of trouble. I will, of course include recommendations for enhancing play and moving to the next level, but the general theme will to provide a straightforward plan for moderate success.

Perhaps 2+2 is moving in this direction with Ed Miller's new collaboration, but I suspect that even that book will contain some very sophisticated concepts which will be beyond most bad players' first reading.

Thanks for the encouragement
Brad S

[Blindfolk]

Maybe publish a first draft on the internet first as an ebook?

[1p0kerb0y]

Sounds like a great idea! Don't know how well a book like this would sell, but I would buy one. I am very successful at low limit NLHE sit'n'goes, so if you end up searching for a couple ideas let me know!

By the way, I here constant remarks about your earlier post in the 1 table section. Can anyone throw a link to that on this thread? I can't seem to find it...

[Moyer]

It's a great thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=602767&page=&view=&sb =5&o=)

[Ed Miller]

Perhaps 2+2 is moving in this direction with Ed Miller's new collaboration, but I suspect that even that book will contain some very sophisticated concepts which will be beyond most bad players' first reading.

I have definitely NOT made the trade-offs you are talking about in my book. It is aimed at intermediate to advanced players (no "how to play Texas Hold 'em"-type material) who are already basically familiar with some of the beginners literature (e.g., WLLH).

With the exception of some of the preflop advice, I don't cut corners. I am not trying to give you "rules of thumb" to keep you out of trouble. I am discussing technical topics and helping you understand the concepts necessary to make expert decisions. Though the title would be a little silly, it really is "Small Stakes Hold 'em for Advanced Players." /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Ed Miller]

Hey,

I think some here would be surprised how big the potential market is for poker books right now. Titles you and I haven't even heard of are selling a thousand copies a month or more.

If you work hard on the book, your timeframe is reasonable. We started working on SSH around Christmas. We have a manuscript finished now (that has already been heavily edited). We should be published and available for purchase within two months.

Something you MUST do (and it seems you have thought along these lines, but you have to be SOLID):

1. Define your audience. EXACTLY what kind of people should read your book. "Beginning to intermediate (0 to 4 months of experience), losing, low-limit online sit 'n go players who understand basic poker jargon, but who are not familiar with any poker literature," for instance. What kinds of terms and concepts will they know, and what won't they know? What kind of mistakes do they make? Are they casual readers, or are they serious students really trying to become expert players?

Every word should be written with your audience in mind. If your book is for beginning players, don't start by talking about limping under the gun with big pairs. They won't know what you are talking about. OTOH, if your book is for intermediate players, don't spend 60 pages discussing the rules of the game and how to read the board. Poker books make mistakes in this area CONSTANTLY. I probably have made a few mistakes like this, but I really tried hard not to.

2. Define your scope. What EXACTLY do you hope to teach? Are you giving basic rules that will turn beginning players into marginal winners at the 20+2 level? Are you trying to teach people the sophistcated concepts necessary to be big winners at 20+2? Do you want to provide people with the necessary skills to move up, or are you just teaching people to master the smaller buy-in tournaments?

If you write a well-organized book that teaches a SPECIFIC audience how to accomplish a SPECIFIC goal, then you will have written a quality book, even if your target audience is rank beginners, and your goal is simply to teach them to break-even at small buy-in tournaments.

Most poker books suck. Like terrible, I would be totally embarassed if my name were on it even if it was selling thousands of copies, suck. These are their problems:

1. Disorganized. Authors tend to bounce from topic to topic in a confused, "stream of consciousness" style.

2. Poor Prioritization. Authors tend to emphasize points that are really not very important, leaving important topics to only passing references. The MOST IMPORTANT topics (probably the most EXPENSIVE mistakes that you are trying to correct) should receive the most attention, the most examples, etc. Don't spend fifteen pages discussing what to do when you flop two pair or better, ten pages distinguishing between playing on the button after five limpers versus after three, and only three pages on playing the river. (A prominent hold 'em book made exactly this mistake.)

3. Erroneous information. You are welcome to use rules of thumb or simplifications. But if you do, note them as such. Don't pretend that "don't call on the flop with bottom pair without an overcard or backdoor flush kicker" is some hard-and-fast rule of hold 'em. If your point is, "this is a simplified rule intended for beginners," then say so. Otherwise, you are flat out wrong, and it's on you.

4. Lack of clear audience and scope. Some books insist on adding all sorts of chapters that are essentially not relevant/confusing. One well-known hold 'em book that is 80%+ about loose, limit hold 'em cash games decides to spend the final 20% talking about no limit hold 'em, tournaments, and other extraneous topics. At the same time, it spends about five pages TOTAL discussing play on the turn and river. If your book is about loose limit hold 'em cash games, make your book EXCLUSIVELY about loose limit hold 'em cash games. Save the other material for essays, columns, or another book.

5. Muttled advice. You are giving advice. GIVE ADVICE. Make clear, unambiguous suggestions. Your advice should be the CENTERPIECE of your book. This is one thing that Mike Caro does well (from what I've read). In his "Fundamental Secrets of Winning Poker," his advice (though not always correct) is always unmistakable. You cannot read that book and not know what he wants you to do. The book is written like an infomercial (which is annoying to me), but it is better than many other books I have read because it is VERY CLEAR. In a different poker book I read earlier this year, you could literally read a whole chapter and at the end have no idea what it was about.

Hehehehe... it just occurred to me that you didn't really ask any of this stuff. It kind of turned into a rant about "What I don't like about poker books." I guess my point is: It sounds like, despite your limited experience, you could write a valuable poker book. Stick to what you know well, and make sure you write to a specific audience to achieve a specific purpose. If you do, your book will be well worth reading.

As for publication, there are several options, but I would at least explore signing up with an established publisher before I settled on self-publishing. Self-publishing is risky and expensive with a large overhead. You will also get more exposure and sell more copies if you go with an established publisher. Writing a book can open up opportunities that are based on your reputation, and you will get a better reputation if you go with an established publisher.

If you write a quality poker book, you should be able to find a publisher even though you are writing about a "niche" topic. Poker is that popular now. Good luck. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Moyer]

Nice post Ed

[monkey_love]

It sounds like you're getting some solid advice here but here's my two cents as a likely customer.

First, I don't think that it is a problem that you aren't a highly recognized expert or that this won't be a 2+2 type reference work. As long as you recognize what this does to your market I think that there is still a market there.

Second, complete hand histories of SNGs sounds extremely unpleasant. Even sample histories, while necessary, are tiring to read. Maybe an excerpted history with commentary pulling the pieces together.

Third, I think you need to cover the PokerStars two table tournaments as well. Be very specific. Show how blind structure differences at the different sites affect play.

At $10-$15 a copy, a very pragmatic guide to SNGs would be appealing. I think that one way to look at the market for this would be people that know the basics but just aren't putting it together yet. I don't want a rehash of basics in general but pointing out which basics people tend to screw up would be good. General theory is good, of course, but a lot of "situations" with bullet points can really help someone get started. Depending on how ambitious you want to be, an ebook might be entirely reasonable for this project.

[Daithi]

I think it is a good idea but I have a suggestion. Instead of writing it as a book that teaches you how to beat the SNG, I'd recommend a book that teaches NL Holdem to people that may have seen it played on TV, and to limit holdem players that want to try their hand at no-limit, BUT the book uses SNGs as an inexpensive training ground.

Once someone can consistantly beat these SNGs they would have a well rounded skill set (playing when stacks are deep on 1st level, to playing a short stack or a big stack, and playing short handed or heads-up, etc).

This would give you a MUCH bigger market. Not a book on SNGs, but a NL Holdem book that uses SNGs as a training tool!

[vulturesrow]

Daithi,

I for one think that is an excellent idea...but it may be outside the scope of what Aleo wants to teach or is comfortable writing about. IF it isnt, I think it would be an excellent idea. I for one would buy a copy, even in ebook format or what not.

Chris

[heyrocker]

I think you should stop this foolishness before you educate all the fish /images/graemlins/cool.gif /images/graemlins/cool.gif

No, just kidding. I do think the reach of such a book would be limited, but I also know your guide has been very helpful to people. In particular I think most new players have a very hard time adjusting to the fast pace at which single table games change from full table / low blind play to short table / high blind play. I think new players have a grasp of the former but drop the ball on the latter. Of course then we get back to educating the fish...

The on-demand publishing idea is a great one too. You probably end up paying more per-book, but its safer.

Best of luck

[pgec311]

I think this book sounds like a good idea, and actually could have a good audience. Just a suggestion, if you wanted to include hand histories as a teaching tool, one way to do it would be to follow Ciaffone and Reuben's NL/PL, and do it like the quizzes after the major sections. Let the reader decide the right play and then explain it. Or, put them at the end of specific chapters to emphasize a point. Basically, i am trying to say that including it in the text could really slow down the read, but hand histories can be very valuable for learning step by step thought processes. So use them, but engage the reader with them so they are not reading them like the bad beat posts on 2 + 2 /images/graemlins/cool.gif. Best of luck.

Cheers
PC