Is Harrington's 2 straight final WSOP tables a best ever?

[Daliman]

Of course, the back to back that Doyle, Stuey and Chan did are more impressive, with Chan's 1st, 1st, 2nd consecutive EASILY being the greatest single accomplishment in poker history,(yeah, I know Doyle did the same, but a lot less competitors then). But 3rd out of 839 and 9th minimum out of 2576 in consectuive years seem right up there to me. Hell, I don't even think ANY of the top 32 from last year even cashed this year, did they? If they did, it couldn't be for much, and I (being the grand arbiter of what does and doesn't count) do not consider getting 10k back cashing. Considering his reputation as being the craggiest top player this side of Dewey Tomko, this is even more surprising, given the shootout style of many of the most visible pros out there today. If he wins this one, it might even be a bigger accomplishment than Chan's.
Any other opinions?

[maurile]

I voted for Stuey because I think he only entered it a few times.

[MadSci]

I nominate Phil Ivey winning 3 bracelets in 2002.

I am very interested in Harringtons performance this year, as I think he is one of the "top tourney pros" who is good at dealing with the kind of field they got last year and this year. Apparently he mixes in a lot of waiting to get cards and real hands, which of course is what you need to do against "these players who don't know how to fold and call my bluffs when they shouldn't waaahhh."

[fnurt]

I laughed so hard when I got to the last choice that I had to vote for Daliman. Those SnGs are tough! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[shaniac]

Same with my vote.

In reality I think Harrington's accomplishments over 10 years outshine them all, at least by a slim margin. In the days of Stuey and Chan, fields were much smaller, competition less diverse and sophisticated.

Harrington's performance has proven his ability to adjust, adapt and prevail.

His book will be a bestseller.

Shane

[Daliman]

By the way, before you dismiss the final choice out of hand, remember, this WAS at the $200+15 level, the first 4 while feeding my 4 month old son at the same time, which increases the difficulty by a factor of 1.6 . Most of the other choices couldn't handle those stakes......

[BettnTibetn]

i fully agree i had to vote for you. The WSOP is easy compared to the real experts that play on party poker.

[The Q]

Ok, you convinced me.

[Daliman]

jeez, i'm getting a LOT more joke votes than i thought, lol.

Funny thing about that is, I used to play a lot of Heads up matches, and only twice did i win 7 or more in a row, with my record being either 12 or 13, (can't remember), and the other time, 7 exactly.
I had NEVER won 7 straight times in 10P SNG's EVEN ONLY CONSIDERING WHEN I GOT HEADS UP! I think i'd won 5 or 6 in a row when GETTING to heads up, but NEVER 7.
I'm relishing it, cuz I ain't EVER gonna do it again ...

[LtColJW]

5th place last year-Tomer Benvenisti I believe-cashed in this years event. Remeber, the big expedition guy who knocked out Hellmuth last year? He came in like 150th or something like that. Harrington's accomplishment is just amazing.

Chan was great with fields 150-250 range. But over 800 and 2500? If ESPN doesn't do a lot on Action Dan I would be shocked.

[LtColJW]

Make that 190th. Not nearly as impressive, but hey, cashing twice in a row with the field size is at least noteworthy.

[La Brujita]

I voted for Chan. I think that was incredible. What does "craggiest" mean? I was trying to figure it out in context but could not.

Regards

[Jas3774]

After reading the streak was in 7 $200sng's, I would like to change my vote for Daliman please....for real:)!!

On the WSOP side of things, however, I would have to rate Action Dan's accomplishments as equal to, at least, anything that's ever been done there.

[Daliman]

crags=jagged edges and crevases in a rock

Therefore, "Action Dan" is among the craggiest of Rocks

[UTGunner]

I thought he was 190th and just missed the money.

Harrington's two visits to the final table in 2 years is more impressive given the number of entries both years. More impressive than Stu Unger's multiple wins IMO.

[gisborne]

Saying Dan Harrington's accomplishment is great is like being amazed that 2 people in a room of 20 have the same birthday. If you looked at all the name players certainly one of them was likely to end up doing well 2x in a row.

[Expunge]

I'm going with harrington on this vote...

Dailman very impressive, but i'm guessing you play an aweful lot of SnG's so in the long run since you're a good player you're likely to hit a nice streak. To me that discounts it a little.

[Martin Aigner]

Marcel Luske came in 14th last year and 10th this year.

Best regards

Martin Aigner

[Daliman]

Yah, i do play alot, but it's STill a 1 in 3 or so million shot. i've only played 2.6 million SNG's, so it was a BIT ahead of the curve....






(actually, 1450, but who's counting?)

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
Saying Dan Harrington's accomplishment is great is like being amazed that 2 people in a room of 20 have the same birthday. If you looked at all the name players certainly one of them was likely to end up doing well 2x in a row.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's BS.

[Jim Kuhn]

Stew,

Very well said but an understatement! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4U
/images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[trillig]

Howdy!

Got any hand histories of any of those?

Love to see those, if ya do, please message me....

I still have a hand history of a vic or two of my own at lower levels some place, and last 100 hands in my PSO 114'r victory.... they only allow last 100 max, which kinda sucks...

-Bri

[trillig]

What about Player of the Year for the WSOP 2004, Danny N.?

He made 5 FT's this year! Quite a feat, or Scott Fischman winning two events this year at age 23?

Nice run of 7 on those $200's... what's your record for consecutive NOT cashing? Gotta take the good with the bad... /images/graemlins/wink.gif

-Bri

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
What about Player of the Year for the WSOP 2004, Danny N.?

He made 5 FT's this year! Quite a feat, or Scott Fischman winning two events this year at age 23?

Nice run of 7 on those $200's... what's your record for consecutive NOT cashing? Gotta take the good with the bad... /images/graemlins/wink.gif

-Bri

[/ QUOTE ]

strangly enough, that also happens to be 7, lol. This # actually seems very low for someone like me who plays 100's of these a month and 4 at a time. I know other top players at party who have gone 15....
My record for most CASHES in a row is 10, back ended by the 7 in a row, front ended by a show and 2 places.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Everone:

There's something that virtually no one here knows. When Dan won the WSOP in 1995, he also won the preliminary no limit tournament a few days earlier. That was worth, if I remember correctly about $250,000. This is certainly comparable to any great performance by anyone else.

Best wishes,
Mason

[trillig]

WOW, you are da man! 8)

4 at a time would drive me crazy even though on my 19" I can fit them all.
You are so used to playing them though that you must be on auto-pilot and/or in poker trance mode...

On my low cost ones, I won 3 in a row and cashed 6 out of 7 that stretch, I rarely play them at all anymore, rather battle with a field 50-200 if I can find it for $5-$25 range, although I tried one last night, LIMIT HE and took 2nd, after expecting to go out first.

I think I played roughly 50 of those, and never had a stretch over 4 where I didn't cash, but $5-$10 entry ones have tons of baffoons, then again sometimes there are tougher then knowledgable folks, once in a while. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

At the $200 level, are they that much better than the typical $30's? $5/$10's?

I could take a short stab at some $30's on partypoker, hmmmmmm food for thought anyhow. 8)

Thanks for reply!

-Bri

[Daliman]

The difference in play at the $200+15 level is a quantum leap from even the $100+9's, much less the lower level ones. There are alot of people who have a 35-45% ROI at levels $30 and below.
Yeah, 4 tables at a time is like nothing to me anymore. At 4 tabes, I chat at the tables, surf the net, chat on email, and feed my son all at the same time half the time. It the perfect vocation for the ADD-afflicted /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Kevmath]

Julian Gardner has cashed the last 3 years in a row.

Kevin...

[deacsoft]

Let's not forget that Harrington just won the WSOP a few years ago besides making it to the final table the last two straight years.

However, I voted Chan.

[curmudgeon]

great accomplishments cannot be compared

[tripdad]

[ QUOTE ]
great accomplishments cannot be compared

[/ QUOTE ]

you are a curmudgeon!

[trillig]

After reading your first message about $200's I went and watched one, I need to watch another one I think this was a bad example, very bad play IMHO on this table.

1 person got bagged on first hand, and 2 more out by end of hand 5... all by same guy...

The calls with what they had, were not good calls...

I quit watching but looked later, he indeed won it...

I got into a cheapo one and it took 4 orbits to eliminate 1 player...

Do people tend play faster at the higher limits to try and 2x/3x as quick as they can?
(and risk fast exits, and just move onto the next)

That is feeling I was getting...

Daliman, sounds like your ready to write a book on the subject... I say do it before someone else does... 8)

'Sit & Go Advanced Strategy' by Daliman, foreword by trillig /images/graemlins/wink.gif

I have a bit of ADD also, you taking anything for it?

-Bri

[Prof. Booty]

[ QUOTE ]

I am very interested in Harringtons performance this year, as I think he is one of the "top tourney pros" who is good at dealing with the kind of field they got last year and this year. Apparently he mixes in a lot of waiting to get cards and real hands, which of course is what you need to do against "these players who don't know how to fold and call my bluffs when they shouldn't waaahhh."

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'm sick of hearing some pros whine about how amateurs are "too bad" to justify the pros' lackluster performances in the WSOP. Like you said, Harrington adjusted well, and these players need to learn how. I mean, either you have bad players you can't bluff OR you have good players that maybe you can occasionally put a move on. They want the best of both worlds...WELL, you can't have it.

NOTE: These pros' playing levels are certainly leaps and bounds above mine. Just saying they need to recognize the shift in players. Not criticizing their skill, just pointing something out...like calling out a football player on a mistake (not that I can catch that 60-yard pass, but you should). /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
After reading your first message about $200's I went and watched one, I need to watch another one I think this was a bad example, very bad play IMHO on this table.



[/ QUOTE ]
YEah, don't get me wrong, there's STILL a few terrible players most every table, but there are also a few pros on every table, of vearying skill levels. Basic strategy is not 2x or 3x up but outlast the idiot level, not get KO'd early on crap, and make good decisions throughout.

[ QUOTE ]
I have a bit of ADD also, you taking anything for it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Lots and lots of money from people at Party Poker.

[sonataarctica]

Hey daliman 7 in a row in sweeet but i had to go for chan but man 7 at 2 bills...sweet...anyways i have the hardest time running 2 tables at once let alone you doin four with all the other stuff you do. how do you do 4 at once? does it just take time?

[Daliman]

Actually, Once I figured out that $200+15 Party SNG's were beatable, (took me about a week or so..), i almost immediately started playing 4 at a time. I wish they'd bump it to 5 or 6, course, then, I couldn't chat or surf at the same time.

[conform]

you can play more if you run empire at the same time, can't you?

[punkass]

no offense to daliman...your feat is incredible, and I wish I could it...

However, I don't put your feat in the same class as WSOP tourneys or big buy in tourneys.

Professional tennis players can win a lot of little tournaments, but the ones everyone cares about are the grand slams.

Again, don't get me wrong....I don't ever want to see you on my table. But the big events is where they measure the big accomplishments. 3 no hitters in AAA minor league baseball is still less than one in the majors.

[happyjaypee]

[ QUOTE ]
I voted for Stuey because I think he only entered it a few times.

[/ QUOTE ]


Actually, Stuey only played the WSOP 3 times and won them all.


-Happy /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I voted for Stuey because I think he only entered it a few times.

[/ QUOTE ]


Actually, Stuey only played the WSOP 3 times and won them all.


-Happy /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true. He played it at LEAST 6 times, still impressive tho.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
no offense to daliman...your feat is incredible, and I wish I could it...

However, I don't put your feat in the same class as WSOP tourneys or big buy in tourneys.

Professional tennis players can win a lot of little tournaments, but the ones everyone cares about are the grand slams.

Again, don't get me wrong....I don't ever want to see you on my table. But the big events is where they measure the big accomplishments. 3 no hitters in AAA minor league baseball is still less than one in the majors.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, let's look at it like this:
If 2576 people enter the WSOP , the chance of SOMEONE winning it, are of course, 100%.
It's a zero sum conclusion; 1 winner, 2575 losers(for lack of a better term)
Now, if you take those same 2576 people, have them each play 100 sit n go's, what are the chances even ONE of them will win 7 in a row?
probably less than 8%(although I'm no expert in figuring these kind of things out.
Like i said b4, winning 2 WSOP's in a row of these is exceptionally impressive, but obviously, not a singular achievement, as 4 people have done it, but in retrospect, my accomplishment does rank pretty well, especially given the fact that it was played at the highest limits commonly run online.
That said, Chan's accomplishent buries mine, in more ways than one..

[drewjustdrew]

Interesting use of statistics. I think your chances of winning the tournament are 1 in 2576 (.04%). You can't claim 100%. Same for your feat. The odds of one specific person winning winning seven sit n goes in a row is .00001%. Considering a sample size of 100 attempts, it is much greater, but my statistics knowledge is limited. Of course these numbers consider you of average skill.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting use of statistics. I think your chances of winning the tournament are 1 in 2576 (.04%). You can't claim 100%. Same for your feat. The odds of one specific person winning winning seven sit n goes in a row is .00001%. Considering a sample size of 100 attempts, it is much greater, but my statistics knowledge is limited. Of course these numbers consider you of average skill.

[/ QUOTE ]
You misread my post. I said there is a 100% chance SOMEONE would win, not any one given person. There is no guarantee anyone would EVER win seven in a row, although, given enough samples, it would likely and almost assuredly happen.

[joedot]

Making the final table of a tournament is great. Two years in row with this large of a field, awesome! But making the final table and winning are two very different things. Stu Unger won tournaments, not just made final tables.