Get there on the turn and fold

[Ulysses]

I actually got confused due to the poster here and thought I was completing the SB here, not calling UTG+1. This table is pretty straightforward and not very aggressive. What do you think of my turn play?

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: akshawnd T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif. CO posts a blind of $10.
UTG calls, akshawnd calls, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(6 players) </font>
SB bets, BB calls, UTG calls, akshawnd calls, CO folds, Button raises, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, akshawnd calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(5 players) </font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, akshawnd checks, Button bets, SB calls, BB raises, UTG folds, akshawnd folds, Button calls, SB folds.

River: (13 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
BB bets, Button raises, BB calls.

Final Pot: 17 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
BB shows 7d 2d (flush, queen high).
Button shows Ad Jd (flush, ace high).
Outcome: Button wins 17 BB. </font>

[stripsqueez]

[ QUOTE ]
I actually got confused due to the poster here and thought I was completing the SB here, not calling UTG+1

[/ QUOTE ]

this sounds like a dodgy way to avoid the pre-flop lash

hard to comment on the turn without considering the flop - looks very marginal to call the flop with a bunch of guys acting after you when you only have 3 outs - in fact change marginal to plain wrong

whats horrible about the turn is that having got here i am loath to fold - i figure you checked the turn initially with the intention of calling a single bet if it came back to you at that cost - the raise is more than i can bear so i like fold

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
this sounds like a dodgy way to avoid the pre-flop lash

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I know, but it's true. I don't like this hand here, but in a multi-way unraised pot I like seeing a flop from the SB. Screen popped up and I keyed on the bet directly to my left, obviously the BB, so I completed and only then realized that this guy was posting. Chalk another one up to 4-tabling.

[ QUOTE ]
hard to comment on the turn without considering the flop - looks very marginal to call the flop with a bunch of guys acting after you when you only have 3 outs - in fact change marginal to plain wrong

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I think that's wrong as well. This table was on the passive side, so I thought my chances of avoiding a raise were good, but I agree a fold is better.

[ QUOTE ]
i figure you checked the turn initially with the intention of calling a single bet if it came back to you at that cost - the raise is more than i can bear so i like fold


[/ QUOTE ]

Close. At this table I figured a flush (and only a flush) would likely checkraise. I was actually planning to either fold or checkraise. If the flop raiser turned out to have a flush, well, then I'd be screwed.

[fyodor]

I guess I still don't know any better because I don't require an excuse to call with JTo. Just got PokerTracker so I suppose I'll know soon.

Anyhow there is no way I call that flop. I'm 100% with that stripqueeze guy. That's just wrong. Go sit in the corner.

[Garland]

At first I thought you were posting. But now I see that you called with J10o. I don't think this plays well in a short handed game in early position and would fold it preflop.

You're getting 9:1 on the flop to catch one of 3 perfect 9s (44:3). The odds aren't quite there, but I'm sure there are implied odd implications to call this bet, but it's very tenuous with the potential flush draws and redraws. That said, I would make the call.

After you get there on the turn, I would lead out myself. No one may have that flush, but could definitely have a flush draw, and while you should make them pay. When it's raised by button and reraised by BB, I would get the heck out. If it's only raised by one opponent, call down.

Garland

[PassiveCaller]

the flop call was a mistake so I'll ignore that but as everyone else said you just don't have enough clean outs on the flop, but nice job getting away from this even when you hit.

I don't really like having to call that reraise after your call on the flop and it's one of the reasons the tainted outs is bad.

[naphand]

I am currently doing some SIMS using JTo in a variety of game-types. JTo is certainly playable in low-limit or passive games, more aggro and tighter games I am not sure, though it is pretty unanimously disregarded by the $10/$20 players and a lot of $5/$10.

I suspect JTo can be played for a profit a little more than people suspect (and my SIMS/experience definitely support this idea), I just think it needs to be played more passively PF than people are accustomed to playing. More on this when I put my SIM results on the forum.