Bad beats = loss of interest

[MrGo]

It appears when I have a losing session, or a horrible session that ends in bad beat after bad beat, I lose interest in poker and say to myself maybe this game isn't for me. Of course those thoughts go away after awhile, but it's a horrible feeling and it wears me down after awhile.

Do any of you feel that way? If so, how do you cope? What do you tell yourself that losing sessions and bad beats are part of the game?

I was playing 15-30 at Party today. To make a long story short, I flop trip 7's. I raised pre-flop and got re-raised. I lost to runner runner flush. 3 hands later, in the SB with AA...capped preflop with 1 LP (on a steal). He hits runner straight with T9o.

I'm not trying to cry about it, just looking for psychological advice when this happens, because it does happen to everyone.

Thanks.

[Ponks]

Seems like you have all the psychological advice you need in your own post.
[ QUOTE ]
bad beats are part of the game? <font color="green">Yes!</font>

because it does happen to everyone.



[/ QUOTE ]
Yes exactly, bad beats are part of the game and they happen to everyone. If you know you are a winning player there is a light at the end of the tunnel that you will reach eventually, just take a break for a while if you feel tilty or that you arent playing your best.

[BusterStacks]

Get over it. If everybody knew you had the best hand, they would generally all fold to you and you wouldn't win any money. It's poker dude, and if your opponent chooses to draw at that gutshot on the river even though you are making him pay for it, it's his choice. You make money on people's mistakes, and it is a MISTAKE for someone to draw to a runner-runner straight, much less play see a capped flop with T9o. The fish gotta win sometimes, that's what keeps them in. I do think, however, that if you lose interest in the game itself, maybe you are right in thinking poker is not for you. You are by no means ensured in a win in the situations you described, so yeah, get over it.

[CrackerZack]

If the money doesn't mean so much, the beats hurt less.

[MrGo]

[ QUOTE ]
If the money doesn't mean so much, the beats hurt less.

[/ QUOTE ]

The money means something to me, so... but you're correct.

[CrackerZack]

After reading this, and your posts in the mid-stakes forum, have you considered moving down? I don't mean it to be rude, as almost all of us here started at 2-4/3-6 or lower and many still play their exclusively, but if the money hurts, it would likely be beneficial to move down and improve post flop play at lower stakes. I'm not saying you can't beat the 15/30, as often, tight play pre-flop and anything less than utter incompetence post flop should about break even, but many people have mentioned the games getting tighter and tougher, and the first to suffer from this would be the people with trouble post flop. Anyway, I'll reply to both of your posts in the mid-stakes forums with my thoughts and take it as you will.

Good luck,
Zack

[LetsRock]

I call those beats "stupid" beats as opposed to bad beats. (I think bad beats are reserved for very long odds to beat a very good hand - bad beats are not always administered by bad play!)

They can be hard to take. Once in a while, it's no big deal, but when you have one (or 5) of those sessions where every fish at the table is sucking you out, it can be very punishing to your emotions.

First of all, make sure you KNOW that the long run is what matters, not the results of "this" session. It's a little easiar to swallow a rough session if you can see your profits long term. Keep records so you have "proof" that you are winning over the long run. It does help if you can actually look at it, even if you know you're a winning player.

If you find yourself in one of those sessions where nothing is going right and you find yourself frustrated because of it, take a good long break or quit for the day. Frustration can lead you to not making good decisions. Whether you loosen up and "go after" that sucker or become so afraid of bad results that you don't bet/raise when you should, it doesn't matter - it's all tilt.

There's always tommorrow and the day after - you don't have to make your poker million today. Play when you feel like playing, and quit when you don't. Use downtime to review your play and see if you could have done something to prevent the suckouts. Re-read some of your books - you'll be surprised how some sections may read completely differrently since you now have a little more experience under your belt.

If you're really emotionally wasted, then go do something else completely unrelated to poker so you can free your mind for a while. It does help to have other things in your life to do besides grinding away at the poker table.

[andyfox]

Years ago, when I first started out, I slept better after I lost than after I won. I was excited about winning, I suppose, and kind of lost interest, as you describe it, after losing.

After a while, I came to realize how big the short-term luck factor was. A couple of cards, in the course of many hours of play, can be the differenc between winning and losing. Sh*t happens. Roy Cooke doesn't even (so he claims) keep track of how he does in individual sessions. Just keep making the right decisions. If they don't work out during a particular session, go do something else that brings you pleasure.

Check with Dr. Al on the psychology forum. He's very good.

[BIGRED]

People say if you can detach yourself from the money, then the bad beats don't affect you as much. I agree with this and this is what I do to practice this.

When I sit at a table, I sit down with a ridiculous amount of money for the limit I'm playing. For example, when I sit at 2/4, I go in with anywhere between $500 to $1000, so that if I happen to hit a string of bad cards and lose, say, something like $100 within 30 minutes... the loss doesn't seem that much. I also make it a point to mix up the buy-in from one time to the next. What this does is that sometimes I forget what I bought in for and I don't even know if I'm down or not. And if you play 3 to 4 tables at a time doing this, you can really confuse yourself /images/graemlins/crazy.gif.

One bad thing about doing this is that some people see this as being a show-off and you get negative comments on it, but who cares...

Also, another reason why I mutli-table is to smooth out the effects of bad beats. More likely than not, I almost always have 1 table that negates the loss at a bad table, and things just smooth out nicely when I multi-table.

I don't know if this idea of sitting down with crazy amount of money makse sense, but it works for me, especially when I play 3 to 4 tables at a time.

[MrGo]

[ QUOTE ]
After reading this, and your posts in the mid-stakes forum, have you considered moving down? I don't mean it to be rude, as almost all of us here started at 2-4/3-6 or lower and many still play their exclusively, but if the money hurts, it would likely be beneficial to move down and improve post flop play at lower stakes. I'm not saying you can't beat the 15/30, as often, tight play pre-flop and anything less than utter incompetence post flop should about break even, but many people have mentioned the games getting tighter and tougher, and the first to suffer from this would be the people with trouble post flop. Anyway, I'll reply to both of your posts in the mid-stakes forums with my thoughts and take it as you will.

Good luck,
Zack

[/ QUOTE ]

Zack,

Thanks for your words. Perhaps I am overstepping my boundaries with 15-30. I am comfortable playing 10-20 to be honest. I feel I am a good enough player to earn money at that game.

I think more than anything it's my competitiveness gets in my way when it comes to poker. I hate to lose, which is a very bad thing in poker. I understand you're going to lose and have losing sessions/weeks/months, etc... but even when I understand that, it still gets under my skin so badly. Perhaps this is something deeper than poker. Perhaps a temperment issue? Not sure, but willing to fix it ASAP.

[CrackerZack]

Oddly, I used to really get annoyed after losing sessions, then after getting creamed a few times, I became more or less immune. I still get excited after nice winning sessions but after losing ones I'm much more indifferent. As for party 10/20 vs 15/30, from what I've heard the 10/20 full game is tighter than the 15/30 but the 10/20 6 max games a really wild and profitable for a skilled player, especially a skilled SH player. I can't verify the difference in the full game from experience though as I have &lt; 500 hands at 10/20 full.

Zack

[deacsoft]

[ QUOTE ]
First of all, make sure you KNOW that the long run is what matters, not the results of "this" session. It's a little easiar to swallow a rough session if you can see your profits long term. Keep records so you have "proof" that you are winning over the long run. It does help if you can actually look at it, even if you know you're a winning player.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's all the advice you need.

[MrGo]

I have observed the 6 handed tables on Party and I am not comfortable with them as of yet. My SH game needs tweaking for me to really benefit from that game. It looks really juicy, but I won't sit in a game where I feel uncomfortable.

Thanks for the advice.

[MicroBob]

i havent read all the responses yet....i'm going to maybe take a quick nap and then possibly come back to see if my situation turns around (and will read the whole thread at that time). or i might make plans and not play anymore today....i might just be better off starting over manana.


i can tell you from my recent experience that the biggest problem with situations like this is the blow to one's confidence.
i know there are a couple of hands in there that i could have played better...etc etc.

i've had some really wild swings of late (after some reasonably comfortable, consistent and uneventful winning weeks).

last friday i won over $1k in a single day playing 3/6. kept hitting every pocket-pair for a set...etc etc.

in the past 3 days or so i've lost almost that same amount.
and i know these swings are wilder than what most tight-agressives should normally experience

so...consequently....doubts creep in as to whether i should even be playing at this level or what i should be doing differently.


but overall it's just a bunch of bad-beats that are clobbering me and i KNOW that (i just have to keep reminding myself).

AA keeps getting rivered....
KK flops a set and loses to an AA set on river...

QK flops a broadway straight...i'm pushing it hard...and A7o catches an A and a 7 for runner-runner full-house. yuck. at least the A7 guy had the courtesy to apologize /images/graemlins/smile.gif

then there are the AK flopping a pair and getting rivered by 2-pair 85o or something which happened a couple times as well. arrrgh.


just a run of some really bad-beats...you know the drill. sorry to bore you with all the specifics.


i guess it's all a part of 'what goes around comes around'....and i know there truly will be light at the end of the tunnel.

but that also doesn't stop me from being a bit concerned.

so....i'll just use the losing streak as motivation to investigate my game even further checking out the threads in the ML and SS forums.

but +170BB's one day and then -150BB's over a 3-day stretch has definately been something of a roller-coaster.
and it's a pretty damn good reason why i KNOW i'm not ready for the 10/20 or 15/30 games yet (either skill-wise or emotionally....take your pick).

[sin808]

As difficult as I find it, I try to realize that the more bad beats I suffer the better off I am. It tells me I'm playing good poker. I can't control what the other people play, but in the long run their lucky draws will pay off less often than my good hands will hold up..

theoretically anyway /images/graemlins/smile.gif