Ace on turn vs big pair

[Peter_rus]

I find myself occasionally folding winning hand like JJ-KK on turn vs 2 loose but not maniac opponents. 1 of examples:

I'm UTG K /images/graemlins/diamond.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gif i raise 2 LAGs (but not maniacs and can sofly call till river on weak flopped aces - bad kicker or check if overcard shows) called (including 1 on BB)

flop is: 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif

checked to me - i raise - both called

turn: A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

MP bet, BB raises, i fold, mp call /i would fold here usually if there are 3 or more opponents for only 1 bet and i would have hard thinking if there are only two opponents to consider folding for 1 bet/

river is blank MP check - BB raise - MP call

MP shows K/images/graemlins/spade.gif 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif
BB shows J /images/graemlins/heart.gif 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

damn shame on my weakness! They trick me like a fool! Or maybe in a distance such my play will be correct? Opinions?

[stripsqueez]

i'm struggling with the description - are you last to act of 3 ? - ie your UTG and both blinds played ?

assuming that it went bet-raise to you on the turn i think fold is normal - your opponents are the ones who look foolish

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[Peter_rus]

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i'm struggling with the description - are you last to act of 3 ? - ie your UTG and both blinds played ?

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Yes - i was talked about play on UTG. Sorry for mistake - both players were blinds.

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assuming that it went bet-raise to you on the turn i think fold is normal - your opponents are the ones who look foolish

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If there will be raise from sb and call from BB - what would you do?

[stripsqueez]

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If there will be raise from sb and call from BB - what would you do?

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i think you use the word "raise" where i would use the word "bet" - assuming you mean what do i do if the SB bets first to act on the turn and the BB calls i could do all 3 things - ie call/fold/raise - most of the time i fold and sometimes i will call/raise - it depends how bad they are

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[Nate tha' Great]

If you never folded the best hand, then you'd be bleeding a lot of chips.

I don't see how you can't fold on the turn without some very specific reads on your opponents.

[PassiveCaller]

tough situation... with no read. This will happen from time to time. :-(

[naphand]

Very important post from Nate, which although obvious when you see it, made me feel a lot better over a few folds I have made recently.

In NL there are a lot of times where you quite literally have to fold a good hand, even a likely winner. Facing a bet of sufficient size, your odds are killed, or the risk is not worth it. This is particularly true of drawing hands, but crops up elsewhere as well. I think a lot of people will be familiar with this concept in NL.

A fold in this position is entirely consistent with a winning strategy, that necessarily demands folding hands when you are not geting a justifiable return on your risk (bet). You fold here because in circumstances like this, you are losing more chips by calling down in the long-run than you are making. It sucks when you would have won, esp. unimproved, like here.

Making a judgement of how many times you are likely good can be pretty much standard but is significantly modified by your reads on players.

That is why it is

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I don't see how you <font color="red">can't</font> fold on the turn without some very specific reads on your opponents.

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Apologies Nate, but just felt that your comment was particularly succinct, and worth re-iterating for the sake of the mind-game; I have dwelt too long on some folds I have made, when in fact I should be comfortable with the reasons why I folded, irrespective of the result.