JJ and why 2/4 is breakeven [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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PraetorianAZ

05-27-2004, 01:19 AM

UTG+1 is a LAG who raises any suited pre-flop and 3-bets middle pair on the flop but all his hands are holding up. UTG+2 has been quiet but fishy.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, Hero 3-bets, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 caps, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players) 
UTG+1 bets, UTG+2 calls, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (9.75 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players) 
UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks.

I wanted a relatively cheap showdown because these guys could have just about anything.

River: (9.75 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players) 
UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls.

Final Pot: 13.75 BB
Main Pot: 13.75 BB, between UTG+2 and Hero. > Pot won by UTG+2 (13.75 BB).

Results in white below: 
UTG+2 shows 6h 5c (straight, eight high).
Hero shows Jd Js (three of a kind, jacks).
Outcome: UTG+2 wins 13.75 BB. 

This isn't a bad beat, it's what happens more than half the time. I'm not convinced 2/4 is beatable. Think about it. How many times does JJ win a 14BB pot? RARELY. Usually your opponents fold the turn and river when they don't hit so you win 5-6BB. The only time the fish pay a turn or river bet is when they're slowplaying or they hit their miracle and raise. The result is you win small pots and lose big ones. I have 16000 hands at 2/4 and this pattern is consistent throughout. It's a breakeven game.

At .5/1 & 1/2 more fish call and call further which makes those levels beatable. Where am I wrong?

JTG51

05-27-2004, 01:21 AM

I have 16000 hands at 2/4 and this pattern is consistent throughout. It's a breakeven game.

I have 75K hands that say that's absurd.

asdf1234

05-27-2004, 01:23 AM

You should have bet the turn. You said it yourself, they could have just about anything, and you beat a lot of hands at this point.

I'll ignore your rant about 2/4 being unbeatable, etc, as I'm sure you're just venting.

sfer

05-27-2004, 01:36 AM

I started to write a long post that included a JJ hand at Party 3/6 that won a 4 way, 14.5 BB pot unimproved. But I'm tired so I'll just say 2/4 is beatable. It can be beaten soundly. It can be thoroughly pummelled.

I am beating it, and I am not, by any stretch, a good poker player.

Alobar

05-27-2004, 01:50 AM

You should have bet the turn.

You're a fellow AZer, so I'll be kind in my reply /images/graemlins/wink.gif 2/4 is easily beatable

joker122

05-27-2004, 02:12 AM

I think it was MicroBob who said Party 2/4 is literally the softest game in the world. I am inclined to agree.

JTG51

05-27-2004, 02:20 AM

Me too.

Joe826

05-27-2004, 02:22 AM

So I assume .50/1 and 1/2 are the only beatable games then? All those pros are gettin lucky? Nah. 2/4 is easily beatable and even softer then 1/2 in my experience. Just keep workin.. BTW do you AZ guys like the Suns? I moved from Phoenix a few years back, i'm still a big fan, even though they suck heheh.

Alobar

05-27-2004, 02:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
So I assume .50/1 and 1/2 are the only beatable games then? All those pros are gettin lucky? Nah. 2/4 is easily beatable and even softer then 1/2 in my experience. Just keep workin.. BTW do you AZ guys like the Suns? I moved from Phoenix a few years back, i'm still a big fan, even though they suck heheh.

[/ QUOTE ]

I used to be a HUGE suns fan. But I'm sick of the NBA, its just a bunch of whiney little babies who care more about money than basketball. College ball is where its at, its a better game and way more fun to watch.

JTG51

05-27-2004, 02:39 AM

With Jake Voskuhl already there, if the Suns take Ben Gordon in the draft I'll be rooting for them.

ddubois

05-27-2004, 03:03 AM

This has no relevance to the thread, I just wanted to post it /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 raises, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 players) 
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets, MP1 calls, CO calls, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 3-bets, MP1 calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (12.25 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players) 
UTG+2 bets, MP1 calls, CO calls, Hero raises, UTG+2 3-bets, MP1 calls, CO folds, Hero caps, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

River: (25.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players) 
UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 28.25 BB
Main Pot: 28.25 BB, between Hero, UTG+2 and MP1. > Pot won by Hero (28.25 BB).

Results in white below: 
UTG+2 shows 9c 9d (three of a kind, nines).
MP1 shows 3d 3c (three of a kind, threes).
Hero shows Jh Jc (three of a kind, jacks).
Outcome: Hero wins 28.25 BB.

Alobar

05-27-2004, 03:25 AM

I think that belongs in the internet forum under a post entitled "rigged!!!" /images/graemlins/smile.gif