Flop action

[WDC]

Live 6-12 CP in MN. Good table, 4 loose passive, 2 loose agressive amd a couple of decent players and me wanna be TAG still working on getting rid of weak tight fallback.

UTG and I get AA. I raise and I am called by MP, button and BB. MP and button both play damn near every hand for one raise as long as they hold any two suited, any connector, any broadway that has a straight possibility or any pair. They will not reraise any hand preflop. The BB will call anything for one bet from the BB.

Flop comes j910 with two diamonds. I bet, MP raises, button calls, bb calls. I call.

Is three betting a must here?

[J.R.]

Do you have the ace of diamonds? If not, folding should be considered and 3-betting seems out of the question. While not the same, this is similar to the situation in HPFAP where the flop comes T /images/graemlins/spade.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif and there is a bet and raise in front of you and 2 to act behind you. In this case, there could be many completed straights, there is a flush draw and board cards that hit many playable hands so there are many ways for you to be behind, and if you are ahead it may be only by a thin margin against the collective fields' outs so you are in a reverse implied odds situation. I would most likely call and see what turns.

[BaronVonCP]

This is far from close to than the situation you described.



Folding is horrible.



Yes. It is.

[J.R.]

Who said to fold? I advocated calling. 3-betting is a bit much, and folding gives up too much. It is not a compeletly different spot from the HPFAP example. The diferences are that he closes the action and there is only a 2 flush on board, the top card is a jack so he has a backdoor straight draw, there is one less opponent and only one bet/raise from an opponent (who was in position). But the point is this, you have a spot where if you are ahead, its likely a thin margin agaisnt the field and there are many cards that can beat you.

I said folding should be considered because he thinks 3-betting is a must. I mentioned the consideration of folding if he doesn't have the A of diamonds because that forces him to put his opponents on hands and realize that he is quite often a big dog to the fields' colletive outs on this flop. Most importantly, he has to act on the turn before the flop raiser, and therefore needs to think about how he should react to each possible turn card.

This is a live game, where reads are easy to come by. He mentions his opponents' preflop tendancies, but how do they play postflop? If you can't consider the fact that there are many players who won't raise here unelss you are in big trouble, you're ignoring information. I advocated calling, and I think its clearly the best play in this spot. But by considering folding, WDC can recognize what cards are good for his hand and when he will need to let his hand go.

Considering folding is something that should be done frequently in spots like these, as it forces you to be realistic about your chances and and play well. There is a huge difference between considering folding and advocating folding. By considering folding, you have to put your oppponents on hands and not blindly pound because you have aces. There are spots where discretion is called for, and this is one.

I enjoy thinking about new thoughts and thank you for reposnding to my post, but ask that you don't just skim my posts and reply with a shortsighted and terse criticism devoid of any reasoning that misrepresents my position.

[WDC]

Thanks for the responses. I did just call the raise. When a small spade hit the turn making a two tone board, I decided to bet the turn with the intention of folding to a raise from the original raiser.

I bet all three called. A third spade hit the river and it was checked around. BB toook it with a j3 of spades.

I was probably ahead on the flop and turn although I have a sneaky suspicion that half the deck would have beaten me on the river. The other two did not show but I am sure that one was drawing to diamonds and the other to a straight, both possibly with a 9 or 10 intheir hand. I am pretty sure that either of them raise with two pair onthe turn.

[BaronVonCP]

I read your post. You should not consider folding. You go into this schpiel about thinking about their hands. You should always do that. You should always think about which options are best.

Folding is not an option here.



"The diferences are that he closes the action and there is only a 2 flush on board, the top card is a jack so he has a backdoor straight draw, there is one less opponent and only one bet/raise from an opponent "