Smart or Stupid?

[Jason Strasser]

100$ SNG Party, NL Holdem as always.

After having looked up Fossilman (Greg Raymer as you all know), and having seen his amazing performance thus far at the WSOP main event, I felt inspired and performed a play he preached about all the time.

Blinds are 150/300, we are 7 handed, the game is fairly typical and tight. I get dealt a curvy 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif in the SB. My stack size is slightly above average, I have 1850. The enemy in this hand, has me covered, but only slightly with 2200.

The enemy, who plays fairly reasonable, is on the button. It is folded to him, and he makes it 900 to go.

The old strassa2 would tend to push in this spot. The improved one thinks of the Fossilman and calls.

Flop JT3r.

I push.

You like?

[sabre170]

Speaking only for myself, brilliant!
He most likely has a good Ace or a small pair, and your push has to give him heartburn.
Of course, in the unlikely case that he has an overpair or a flopped set, you are dead. But on the whole, it looks very +EV.

[Jason Strasser]

I like this play a lot, but sometimes I wonder if its worth risking my entire stack to pull it off. I'm also not sure of the range of hands a typical higher level SNG player will call with. Ace Ten? Queen Ten? King Queen?

Come on, someone has to think this play was stupid and reckless.

[mjohnson406]

I like your play here. The stop and go has entered my game recently and the way I look at it, it is the same as pushing pre-flop.

You've lost your option of taking the pot down pre-flop but your opponent in unlikely to call unless the flop hit him big.

I think most players will fold a middle pair after your push. An OESD with KQ is somewhat tainted by your 99, only 6 outs and if a 9 hits the turn, you have 10 outs (3 jacks, 3 10s, 3 3s, 1 9) to draw to a boat on the river.

[stripsqueez]

if the button has a higher pocket pair which is the hand you really fear then its very likely this is the end of your tournament if you choose to play rather than fold - the other general hands he might have are smaller pocket pairs and big rank cards or something less trying to aggressively pick up the blinds - its relevant to consider the stack of the BB in relation to the last possibility

of the hands that matter (ie the non higher pocket pair hands) i reckon the button may fold some of them pre-flop (maybe not, its obviously player dependant) - if he does thats a huge result and a big argument for pushing pre-flop - if your stack grows to $3000 or so you are a big favourite to finish in the money

if you just call what is the plan if an A or K hits ? - i still like betting out because check/folding is going to induce a bluff a lot of the time anyway - halving my stack at this stage of the game leaves me desperate anyway - i will need to double up in the next round to be a realistic chance

i prefer pushing pre-flop to your plan

i dont know that i agree with your description of this game as typical - i havent played more than 20 or so of these games but this seems like a very tight game to me based on those 20 - the last one i played was 7 handed after the first 4 hands

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[Jason Strasser]

Alright, finally a disagreement. Here is my logic:

I have absolutely no intentions of folding this hand. His raise seemed suspicious, but because my stack wasn't huge, I could easily see him calling an all in preflop with a wide variety of hands. And while this is good, and bad, I'd rather give myself a greater chance to win the hand.

For example, if he has AK here, which I do not expect, my stop and go potentially could get him to fold on the flop. An A, K, Q, could fall on the river, and my stop and go might've prevented me from busting.

Since my opponent was reasonable, I suspect that he was not raising with rags. If I was certain he was, I'd push preflop 100% of the time. A weak ace, or a suited king, or a low pocket pair were probably hands. If I push preflop, he probably will think that he is no worse than a 2:1 dog, and will correctly call.

The stop and go prevents me from doubling up as much as I like to, but more importantly, it allows me to sometimes force an opponent to fold a hand that could've otherwise beat me on the turn or river.

[Jason Strasser]

Oh, as far as results go. He folded.

And in terms of the typical 100 SNG, I find them to vary usually, but often they are very tight. Every now and then you find a wild one, which are beautiful to see, but for the most part there are 5-7 tight, smart players. If you have found a way to find loser games, PM me your strategy /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Jason Strasser]

One last thing I failed to mention. I am pushing on the flop 100% of the time. Even if the flop is AKQ. I cant call away 1/2 my stack, and there is still a good chance he has a hand that does not like an AKQ flop. The Stop and Go is risky, but it seems to lower my variance, and I like that.

[stripsqueez]

[ QUOTE ]
One last thing I failed to mention. I am pushing on the flop 100% of the time. Even if the flop is AKQ

[/ QUOTE ]

i failed to fully apptreciate your plan when i first replied because you left this bit out - the merits of what you did compared to pushing pre-flop are now dependant on whether you can get the button to fold pre-flop or not - you would think that a decent player wouldnt raise that much unless he was prepared to match an all in bet from 1 of the blinds - if thats the read then i prefer your line

stripsqueez - chickenhawk