if you're going to call, you might as well bet

[turnipmonster]

we had a discussion about this yesterday on big endian's AKs thread.

I don't really agree with the "if you're going to call, bet" thing for a lot of hands, especially on the river. there are certain hands that you are going to win at a showdown more often by check calling than by betting, since you are inducing a bluff some percentage of the time.

comments?
--turnipmonster

[MaxPower]

Generally when people use this phrase they are talking about semi-bluffing, which you can't do on the river.

[LetsRock]

The concept of "betting if you are going to call" adds one way for you to win the pot that check/calling does not. If you bet, you give your opponents the option of folding, giving you an uncontested pot. It puts the pressure on the other guy.

As with any poker "rule" it doesn't always apply. Check/calling is appropriate in some situations. I'm not versed well enough on the subject to offer an educated opinion, but my instincts say it's when you have a hand that may very well be good, but the board or the action indicates that you could be raised and your hand is not good enough to call a raise. Check/calling allows you to get to showdown for one bet. It's almost an inverse application of a semi-bluff.

If you're heads-up betting is usually correct, but in multiway action, check/calling is correct many times when you have marginal holding that may be good.

[Jezebel]

The slogan, "if your hand is worth a call, you might as well bet it yourself" also has a second part that most people omit which is, "if you have a decent shot at taking the pot immediately" Many times we bet hands that are obviously not for value and have no shot at taking the pot, such as betting an unimproved AK from early position into a field of 5 players. Thats just bad poker and a leak in many players game.

[Guido]

This statement is most of the time about the flop and turn, not the river. Check-calling is often even better on the river (when you think he might fold to a bet but out with a worse hand when checked to). Here is a hand I just played and I thought this was a good example.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Guido is MP3 with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, <font color="CC3333">Guido raises</font>, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (7.33 SB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players) </font>
UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">Guido bets</font>, Button calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (5.16 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players) </font>
UTG folds, <font color="CC3333">Guido bets</font>, Button folds.

Final Pot: 6.16 BB

Guido