20-40 hand, tough flop decision

[Steve Giufre]

UTG limps UTG+1 calls, I raise red queens in MP, both blinds call, UTG 3 bets and we all call. I have never played with UTG, but he was about 150 years old which made me think he might have had a real hand. The SB was a prop who plays pretty decent.

Flop: 8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 /images/graemlins/club.gif6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

UTG bets, UTG+1 folds, I call, SB raises, UTG 3 bets.

Whats your action, and plan for the rest of the hand if you continue? I thought this was a close one.

[Josh W]

Why did you call the first bet on the flop?

You had a good hand, but feared AA? I'm guessing that's your logic.

But now, you have EVEN MORE REASONS to fear AA, you now have to fear the SB, and it's gonna cost you more.

The first call was close. This one isn't. Give the cards back to the dealer. Then come to the Hustler and our 56K jackpot...

Josh

[DcifrThs]

good post.

i think you should fold as there are now many reasons to do so. "i'll leave it to the reader to figure them out." lol

seriously though, if you aren't totally killed now by either the c-r'er or the 3betting friend of jesus then you're fold will cost you a pot that will surely not be cheap to show down with overcards still possible.

just toss 'em and wait for a better spot.

ps- raise that first bet and the fold is easier and you don't risk giving AK overcards freebees, or straight draws cheap cards unless you wanted to fold in which case you could have done that also.

-Barron

[MrGo]

A call then re-raise by the UTG screams monster. Was this a tight/aggressive table? UTG limped, hoping to get a raise behind him to he could re-raise with his K's or A's.

I think this is an easy fold considering how UTG played pre-flop and the SB raising on the flop.

[andyfox]

Sure seems like UTG is holding up a sign that says, "I have pocket aces." And there just aren't very many cards other than a queen I'd like to see on the turn. I supposed it's possible that UTG has pocket jacks and played them funny and sb has a big draw. But I'd sure give it up.

[Steve Giufre]

I pretty much turbo mucked when it was two cold back to me, fearing I could be beat in both spots. The turn was a black ace, and the river was a brick. The SB called down, and UTG said good call, and threw his hand into the muck. The SB had pocket sevens.

Looking back, the SB made a great play, because he knew that UTG was a maniac, and he also knew that I probably didnt know UTG was a maniac, since he was a new player, and judging by the disgusted look on my face when he limp reraised. So he took his tight image, he almost never gets out of line agaist me, and UTG's pea brain to make me fold the winner. It was a good play on his part. The other thing I learned is not to always put a limp reraiser on AA or KK, even if they are 300 years old.

[Ulysses]

In live play, I've seen people limp re-raise here (after a couple of players call your raise) w/ suited connectors and small pairs many times. Usually I'll go ahead and 4-bet it preflop. Having not done that, I raise right on the flop to see what's what here. As the hand went down, I'd probably fold to the 3-bet as well.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
A call then re-raise by the UTG screams monster.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying this because:

1) UTG was as old as Methuselah?
2) Players don't limp-reraise with crap at 20-40?
3) You scare easily?

[DiamondDave]

Hi Steve! Nice post. QQ is a great hand, but when it's bad, it's horrible if you overplay it. Looks like the old man has either pocket aces or AhKh and the prop has trips, an full house, Ah?h, or maybe something whacky like 7h5h. So you're probably behind and drawing very thin given the action and the opponents you described.

On the other hand, a monster pot is brewing. So do you take one off? Only if you will be able to use one of them to drag the third player along for a multibet ride on the turn and again on the river should you spike a queen on the turn. And it doesn't sound like that's the case here.

[Josh W]

Well, gosh, you can't expect us to give good advice if you don't tell us UTG is a maniac.

[Steve Giufre]

Considering he was new to the game and had only played three hands, I wasnt aware that he was a maniac, so I guess you guys have to answer as if I was playing agaist an unknown. Next time, I will ask him whether or not he is a maniac when he sits down, so I can play my hands accordingly, butthead. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[MrGo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A call then re-raise by the UTG screams monster.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying this because:

1) UTG was as old as Methuselah?
2) Players don't limp-reraise with crap at 20-40?
3) You scare easily?

[/ QUOTE ]

To be honest, I scare easily. This is one of the leaks in my game. I give too much credit to players who raise me.
Plus more often then not, limp-reraisers have an excellent starting hand.