Weird 20-40 hand

[rigoletto]

Paradise Poker 20/40 Hold'em (8 handed) some really soft spots in this game including the ones involved in this hand:

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif. MP2 posts a blind of $20. CO posts a blind of $20.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP2 (poster) checks, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(7 players) </font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(6 players) </font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls, CO folds, <font color="CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

River: (11.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(4 players) </font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Button calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: 17.50 BB, between Hero, MP1, MP2 and Button.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by Hero (17.50 BB).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
Hero shows 8h Qh (flush, queen high).
MP1 doesn't show.
MP2 shows Th Jh (flush, jack high).
Button shows 4h 7h (flush, nine high).
Outcome: Hero wins 17.50 BB. </font>

[Nightwish]

I haven't read the results yet, but how sure were you that button made a straight or a set on the turn so that you would get to check-raise him on the river? I can understand calling the turn raise instead of 3-betting (to induce an overcall by MP2), but I would probably bet out on the river and pray that the button raises again.

[Ulysses]

I would 3-bet the turn here, oh, just about every single time.

[rigoletto]

[ QUOTE ]
I would 3-bet the turn here, oh, just about every single time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Horrible spot to 3-bet. When you are ahead they'll often fold. You'll lose the MP who's likely drawing dead and you'll often be flatcalled and then raised on the river by the nut flush. I like Nightwish idea of betting the river after a turn flat call much better.

to be honest I thought I was beat on the turn, but when button just called that weird river bet from MP the checkraise was obvious.

[Gramps]

Whether you should 3-bet the Turn or not, you have to think you're ahead of the button there.

He probably would have raised the flop for value/a free card with 4 limpers to him if he had the K-high or A-high flush, especially since he had no reason to suspect a 3-bet in an unraised pot PF. The fact that you led out on the flop from the SB on a rags board means you could have a lot of hands worse than a flush in the button's mind, given the action.

[astroglide]

i would 3bet this one 100% of the time, and if i were held at gunpoint and forced not to, i would bet the river. unless, of course, i liked watching the river get checked down by somebody holding the Ah or Kh.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
Horrible spot to 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think this is a horrible spot to 3-bet, you're missing out on a lot of 3-bets.

[J.A.Sucker]

Failure to 3 bet the turn is a crime against humanity. It's very possible that one of your opponents is drawing live to beat you, and they may even start going off with their nut flush draw (I've seen it before). Worse yet, how do you know that MP2 is gonna bet the river? You seem to love slowplaying hands in limit poker. I love it when people do this to me, especially when I have position on them.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
You seem to love slowplaying hands in limit poker. I love it when people do this to me, especially when I have position on them.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly what I was thinking after reading a few of rig's recent posts.

[Coilean]

The may be a few reasons to smooth call the turn, but the only compelling one is if you feel you are beat here over half the time, which seems a premature concern with the OESD just getting there as well as slowplayed set and semibluff A/images/graemlins/heart.gif + pair possibilities. Why care about MP2 drawing dead for one more bet when you get that bet from the button anyway if you 3-bet, and might also catch MP2 drawing live and willing to put in 2 more bets?

[rigoletto]

OMG - I'm weak tight - is there a hotline I can call?