My first 20k hands at 5/10 6max PT analysis

[NLSoldier]

I've been playing 5/10 6max on Empire for a little less than 2 months now. I started off last month really hot but this month was a pretty long break even streak until just recently. Here are my stats so far.

Total Won $3715 (that is according to PT which is missing one rather large win, the actual amount in my account shows i am up $4500)

BB/100 1.94 (i think factoring in that missing session puts this number at about 2.25)

VP$IP 24.11%
went to SD 32.27%
won $ at SD 53.79%
PFR 14.45%

Guess im not sure what other info to give that would help you guys in looking at my play but one thing that i am a little concerned about is that under the "misc. stats" tab it shows i have lost $1,464 with one pair, only winning $ at showdown 42.42% of the time that i have one pair. I guess im just wondering if its normal for a winning player to be losing money in this situation and if other people's stats are similar. If this is out of the ordinary im guessing it means im doing too much paying off with pairs i should know are beat.

I know 20k is not a very large number of hands and the fact that one session can affect my BB/100 by .25 proves this, but i figure now is as good of time as any to try to find the leaks in my game and work on them.

Any comments appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[stripsqueez]

your stats look good to me - how do you go in the blinds ? how often do you play out of the small blind ? and how often do you play from the blinds after a steal attempt ?

there are heaps of different things you can consider with pokertracker - presumably you have looked through the individual hands and considered how they are going - often there might be a couple of hands like K10o or QJo that spew money because your too loose with them - although 20,000 hands isnt a big sample you can judge if you have just been unlucky with a given hand by comparing its win rate to hands of similar strength - whats the best hand you lose with ?

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[NLSoldier]

Thanks for mentioning the play from the blinds because i know that is one area that could use some work. I am currently losing .12BB/100 from the BB and .10 BB/100 from the sb. Im not really sure what other stats are the best measures for blind play but my VP$IP from BB is 21.59% and from sb is 39.17%. Under the general tab my "folded sb to steal" is 87.67% and "folded BB to steal" is 63.32% that last number is one i have been working on reducing-it was at 69% at the end of april, so it has come down somewhat.

None of those unsuited broadway hands seem to be a problem so far as i am winning money with all but QTo where i lose a whopping .01 BB/100. Im a little surprised to see that i am losing .16 BB/100 with JTs but i think this can be attributed mostly to luck since i have only had it 58 times. As far as the best hand i am losing with, It is A8s where im losing .13 BB/100 but i am winning .43 BB/100 with A7s so that is probably mostly due to luck as well. One other thing i notice is that i am losing money with A6o through A2o, not a huge amount but enough that i could probably tighten up with these hands a little.

[stripsqueez]

all your stats look solid to me

i think its hard to win with A2o-A6o - you should be able to pay some of the cost of the blinds but i cant turn them into winners either - its worth while looking at how this set of hands goes in the blinds - i looked at these hands in the blinds recently and despite the fact that i dont play them automatically they were still struggling - more profitable than folding the blinds but not a big profit - this group does show a small profit for open raising on the button in my stats - last time i checked open raising A2o on the button was worth $350 over 50,000 odd hands

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[naphand]

Don't get misled by the "one pair" column in PokerTracker. This figure includes ALL BOARDS. So when the board has paired it shows up in this column regardless. That means all those busted draws and high card hands that you got to SD with, will show up here as one-pair hands when the board is paired (which is a lot). A paired board shows up as a pair, which it is strictly speaking, but does not reflect the way you played the hand.

This distorts you holdings, as it does not distinguish hands where you have a paired pocket. I went through a stack of hands like this to determine how it affected it, and it does make a significant different. I have not done it recently as it is monumentally tedious, though I asked Pat to put it in a future update (like "only include hands where pocket cards are used" option).

Your play is better than this figure suggests (just on the basis of how it is calculated).

[Gazza]

Hi NL
I too have just got pokertracker although I have been playing the 5-10 6 max at Party solidly for about a year now. After just 2 weeks I can't think how I did without it. I am certainly more interested in my stats than how much I win now. Here is my very small sample:

Total hands: 7540
Vpip:27.98
Vpisb: 46.24
Vpibb: 27.13
f sb to steal: 78.26
f bb to steal: 37.82
att to steal blinds: 29.97
bb/100:4.25
amount won: 3203.50
Went to SD: 38.62
Won at SD: 55.72
PFR:15.31
agg factor: 1.61

I seem to be slightly looser than you in the blinds which probably accounts for my extra vpip. I am winning 0.01 in the BB and losing 0.04 in the SB.
Could any of you experts out there comment on or reveal your blinds and VPIP figures? Is it better to be in the high (ish) twenties or less than 25 VPIP? (the average VPIP in the 5-10 Party game seems to be an incredible 40%)
Also,is my BB/100 figure sustainable? It seems very high but my winnings are in line with what I was winning prior to my new life with PT (it also includes a 90BB down swing). I just play one table of 6 max although I am often involved in the first hour of a multi (I stop the 6 max when things are going well there)
I won't comment on any of my individual hands with such a small sample, except to say that I too am losing moderately with A6-A2.
Thanks for any comments
Gazza

[kiddo]

46% from SB seems a lot to me. Blind is 3/5 and you are out of position. I got 30% here and I dont think I am very tight. Game has been very soft lately (hasnt it?) but I am not sure if it isnt to much anyway?

For me, aggression factor in the "general info", "more detail" is important. Here I got:

preflop: 1.3
flop: 2.7
turn: 2.5
river: 1.5
Overall: 1.9

Earlier I had belove 1 preflop. I looked at all my starting hands from different positions. Specially the hands I sometimes tried to limp with from UTG (small pairs and Axs if it was a loose game), all these hands were losers, folding these hands from the start would have improved my winrate with 0.3BB/h (and this was after playing 50K hands, about 500hours... that is $1500... ty pokertracker).

I also looked at what other people were 3betting me with and understood that against most players I had to cap more (not only AA and KK).

I also studied how I played overcards after me preflopraising and not hitting flop. Playing 3 tables, I think HeadsUp play is the hardest because I normally dont have a good read on the other player. Specially not lately when I got a feeling people are jumping around a lot.

One thing I havent done yet, which is pretty stupid, is looking at one of the good players and analyze their style. I think, for example, that I have a lot to do on the turn.

3 months ago my average winrate was a bit below 3BB/h and table (PP 5/10, 6max), playing 2 tables. Now its closing in on 5BB/h and table (actually above 6 last 10K but I am on a good run I think). Thanks to this forum, pokerbooks, practice at the tables and some work analyzing PokerTracker stats, my winrate (true winrate in Pokertracker) has moved from $50/h to $120/hour /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Gazza]

Yeah, 46% in the SB must be too high although it has been a concsious experiment to complete with some hands I used to fold. I thought it might add a bit of variety to my play and make me seem a little more gentle than I really am. Apart from that I rarely limp (and never first in) and have not cold called a raise pre flop in my PT stats.
The breakdown of my agg factor is:

PF 1
Flop 2.53
Turn 2.46
River 1.32

My pre-flop agg factor is obviously lower because of my limping in the SB.
It's good to hear someone is winning 5BB/100. My feeling is that, or even more, must be possible for an excellent player.
I don't know if the game has been very soft recently. I think it's slightly tougher than a few months ago. Maybe it's a case of your Game selction improving as your PT database grows.

[Peter_rus]

Here are my stats for my first 10K in 5/10 6max. Including loosing streak of 160BB exactly at time when i first moved to 5/10 6 max from a full 3/6 game PP. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Total hands: 9849
Vpip:31.75
Vpisb: 50.9
Vpibb: 39.95
f sb to steal: 78.44
f bb to steal: 37.82
att to steal blinds: 25.69
bb/100:2.45
amount won: 2410.75
Went to SD: 36.62
Won at SD: 48.43
PFR:13.69
agg factor preflop 0.65
agg factor flop 2.54
agg factor turn 2.68
agg factor river 1.92

I'm just wonder - why i went to SD less than you but you win more % SD than me... Maybe i lay down my high cards too early... hm...

[kiddo]

[ QUOTE ]
My feeling is that, or even more, must be possible for an excellent player.


[/ QUOTE ]

Stripsqueze, a few months ago said, if I remember correct, 6-7BB and I said noway, cause I was then winning 3BB. But I think he is right. Its very few decisions that you have to change in the right way to increase 1BB/hour. If every pot is 6BB and 100pots/hour, you are fighting for 600BB/hour. Shouldnt be impossible to steal 2-3BB more then now from that, would it?

[stripsqueez]

[ QUOTE ]
Stripsqueze, a few months ago said, if I remember correct, 6-7BB and I said noway, cause I was then winning 3BB. But I think he is right

[/ QUOTE ]

i said 5-6 - i know some guys who would have a good idea that think this is a bit high and that the number is closer to 4

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[Vehn]

I dunno about 5/10 but I don't think 4bb/100 is doable at 10/20 long term.

[kiddo]

If you make 4BB/100 hands at 5/10, what can you - when u get used to the new level - hope for at 10/20?

Is the higher LAG-factor at 10/20 making it harder to play multiple? At 5/10 you normally dont have more then 1 LAG, and that is ok, but if there are 2 LAGs raising each other I often find it hard to do the right thing without thinking.

[stripsqueez]

i think an excellent player multi tabling could sustain something around 3BB's/100 hands at 10/20

the extra good players and extra aggro at 10/20 compared to 5/10 probably would highlight the problems of multi tabling - but - its primarily a matter of adapting your game

stripsqueez - chickenhawk