It's good for poker, I suppose, but seriously...

[GrinningBuddha]

The beats that are flying around at this year's World Series are fairly unbelievable. If I paid $2,000 or $5,000 or God forbid the full $10,000 to get in and met this fate (David Grindstaff):

Raise w/ JJ, short stack re-raises w/ K6s, flop comes K 6 3.
Later you're dealt QQ, push in and go down to K6o. I mean seriously, K6o? People are paying ridiculous amounts of chips to call terrible hands at this tournament. An unknown player raises w/ A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, is re-raised by K /images/graemlins/heart.gif K /images/graemlins/club.gif, and then calls an all-in on the turn with the board reading 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif. What the hell is THAT?

The pros must be licking their chops. Well, the ones that are left, anyway. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Dynasty]

It seems that most posters here just don't understand that K6o isn't much of an underdog to QQ. The QQ player should expect to lose nearly one out of every three times. But, posters here seem to think the QQ is entitled to win 99% of the time.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Agreed. They look at K6 and think it's trash, but in reality, hot and cold vs. QQ, K6 is virtually identical to AJ.

[gonzo787]

I hopefully ESPN will broadcast plenty of these hands. Nothing better than teaching fish bad habits. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[B Dids]

While I understand your point- doesn't the fact that AJ can make a straight change the odds a bit?

As I mentioned in an earlier thread, it seems hard to be critical of play without seeing the play itself.

[slamdunkpro]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems that most posters here just don't understand that K6o isn't much of an underdog to QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

These are the same people who will 3 bet you pre-flop with 24o then look at their stack later and wonder "where did it go! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[MarkD]

Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Qd Qh 1221087 71.31 485745 28.37 5472 0.32 0.715
Js Ac 485745 28.37 1221087 71.31 5472 0.32 0.285

Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Qd Qh 1224567 71.52 483043 28.21 4694 0.27 0.717
6s Kc 483043 28.21 1224567 71.52 4694 0.27 0.283

0.002 difference in EV between K6o and AJo vs QQ

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Ran 'em on twodimes. QQ wins against AJo 71.32%, against K6 71.52%

The 2 str8 cards for AJ gets offset by the fact that 2 of the Q's needed for those str8's are already gone.

[GrinningBuddha]

I'm not astonished that QQ lost to K6. I'm astonished that someone would voluntarily put money into the pot at the World Series with it against a raise, regardless of the outcome.

In any event, David is going to have nightmares about K6 for a while...

[eric5148]

[ QUOTE ]
The beats that are flying around at this year's World Series are fairly unbelievable

[/ QUOTE ]

As if there were no bad beats in the WSOP before this year?

There are more bad beats simply because there are more players, and more hands being played.

I can't understand how anyone could doubt whether this is good for poker. It reminds me of when people were saying Tiger Woods winning the Masters in 1997 might not be good for golf.

[jakethebake]

yes, but that is assuming he knew he was up against QQ. He might as easily have been up against KK or AA. Dumb call.

[AviD]

pokenum -h qh qs - kc 6d
Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Qs Qh 1224567 71.52 483043 28.21 4694 0.27 0.717
Kc 6d 483043 28.21 1224567 71.52 4694 0.27 0.283

[Michael Davis]

How do you know this was a dumb call without a chip count?

Grinning Buddha's post is lacking in key details, but the fact that a short stack had the K6s is quite important.

-Michael

[GrinningBuddha]

You're sitting with about $10k and someone before you raises to about 3k. How many of you would push in with K6s? Ugh.

It just sounds like there's a lot of undisciplined players there this year. Someone made the comment that most of these people got here by playing good poker and beating out a lot of other players in satellites and supers. I think he overestimates the skill level of a lot of them.

[Eihli]

It's not the fact that QQ lost to K6, it's the fact that K6 called an all-in. Of course it may not have been that bad of a call since we don't know the blinds or stacks.

[aaronjacobg]

The point here really is that reraising after a raise w/ K6o is incredibly dumb. I believe this player's thought process at the time was not "hmm, K6o is only a 3:1 dog to queens." I don't have the numbers but i'm pretty sure that AK vs. K6, a more likely type of hand is much more of a favorite. This guy obviously has no clue. He pushed in when he knew he was behind and not terribly short stacked. There is no strategy, just tuna.