AJo and a turn fold

[Rico Suave]

BB is loose and takes his hands too far. CO is pretty decent. A bit loose at times, but fairly aggressive post flop with a hand, but certainly no maniac. So far, she has not shown down anything goofy.



Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Rico is SB with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, Rico completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(5 players) </font>
Rico checks, <font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="CC3333">CO raises</font>, Button folds, <font color="CC3333">Rico 3-bets</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="CC3333">CO caps</font>, Rico calls, BB calls, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: (10 BB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players) </font>
<font color="CC3333">Rico bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="CC3333">CO raises</font>, Rico folds

Bad fold?

[Trix]

It´s fine unless you think she will pop you again with Ax /images/graemlins/heart.gifs here.

You dont have the odds to draw if you think she will hold AT or 44 here.

[sublime]

Rico-

You were capped by a decent player and led out on the turn? I respect your opinion very much, so I am wondering your reason. Also does she realize you are a TAG thinking player? How many hands you got with this chick?


EDIT: would she cap a flush draw with the callers? i can see that

[Rico Suave]

Sublime:

[ QUOTE ]
You were capped by a decent player and led out on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I bet the turn b/c the flop was 2 tone. My opponent could easily be pumping a flush draw with something like Ax /images/graemlins/heart.gif, but I did not think she would pop me again on the turn with just that after my flop c/r 3-bet. If she was on a flush draw, I did not want the turn checked around.

[ QUOTE ]
Also does she realize you are a TAG thinking player? How many hands you got with this chick?


[/ QUOTE ]

I had played very few hands at that table, although I had done my fairshare of raising /images/graemlins/grin.gif . I am sure she thought I was at least reasonable. This was the first time I had sat at her table. (that I know of)


[ QUOTE ]
EDIT: would she cap a flush draw with the callers? i can see that


[/ QUOTE ]

I had not played with her enough to know for certain, but I thought that is a distinct possibility, especially with the A /images/graemlins/heart.gif missing and a A on the board.

--Rico

[sfer]

I don't like folding to a raise. I'd rather check/call the turn unless you're really confident that the CO will only get this frisky with a set.

[Rico Suave]

The river paired the 6 on the board (no heart) and CO takes it down with T /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/spade.gif. BB held A /images/graemlins/heart.gif3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.

Like I said previously, I thought it likely that she was pumping a flush draw (w. Ax /images/graemlins/heart.gif) on the flop, but when she raised my turn bet, I thought that less likely that she held Ax /images/graemlins/heart.gif, and more likely she held A4,AT, TT, or 44, with AT and 44 being the most likely holdings ( I though she would raise pf with TT and I do not know if she would pop the turn again with just A4).

Anyway, Sublime and Sfer seem to prefer a check call on the turn. Is that the better play here?

--Rico

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, Sublime and Sfer seem to prefer a check call on the turn. Is that the better play here

[/ QUOTE ]

Well without a read check/calling is my preffered MOP:

-If she has the flush draw shes not going to fold regardless, and if she doesnt than you are up against a set/two pair.

- if shes aggressive enough to cap the flop with a flush draw she will probably bet the turn. Now your approach is to bet and fold to a raise, but with this approach you dont get to see the river card.

Net cost of approach 1bb, same as what you paid to fold.

[Rico Suave]

Hey Sublime:

Good points. You may be right here. But

[ QUOTE ]
if shes aggressive enough to cap the flop with a flush draw she will probably bet the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I will disagree with you on this one. If I were in her shoes with the flush draw, I think taking the free card is the play. Remember, I c/r 3-bet the flop..surely she has no reason to believe that I will go anywhere. And capping the flop is a value proposition, betting the turn last to act in this situation is not. If I were her, I think I take the free card.

[ QUOTE ]
Now your approach is to bet and fold to a raise, but with this approach you dont get to see the river card.


[/ QUOTE ]

If I am behind, I think I am likely drawing extremely thin (of course, except for A4, for which I am drawing live). So if I check and she bets, I really question whether I have the odds to continue. (Kind of a bet with no outs, check with outs)

If I am ahead, and I check, I miss on collecting bets from the draws, and of course, I have given my opponents a free card to outdraw me.

Obviously, I could be way off here.

--Rico

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I will disagree with you on this one. If I were in her shoes with the flush draw, I think taking the free card is the play. Remember, I c/r 3-bet the flop..surely she has no reason to believe that I will go anywhere. And capping the flop is a value proposition, betting the turn last to act in this situation is not. If I were her, I think I take the free card.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah i though of that afterwards. Good stuff Suave /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ QUOTE ]
If I am behind, I think I am likely drawing extremely thin (of course, except for A4, for which I am drawing live). So if I check and she bets, I really question whether I have the odds to continue. (Kind of a bet with no outs, check with outs)

If I am ahead, and I check, I miss on collecting bets from the draws, and of course, I have given my opponents a free card to outdraw me.


[/ QUOTE ]

I like the HEFAP approach of bet with no out and check with outs. You make some damn good points also. As usual it comes right back to this : KNOWING YOUR OPPONENTS

Which after this lovely hand, you now do a little better.

One thing though, by capping she really didnt buy a free *card* she paid for it in advance /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
Remember, I c/r 3-bet the flop..surely she has no reason to believe that I will go anywhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rico-

Doesnt the fact that she capped your c/r make you think you *are* up against at least two pair? and quite possibly a set?

ps-

I love the thread the other day when you said " my woman was watching me play"

Thats a way a real player talks /images/graemlins/wink.gif

LMAO

[Rico Suave]

Sublime:

[ QUOTE ]
Doesnt the fact that she capped your c/r make you think you *are* up against at least two pair? and quite possibly a set?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe, but I would routinely cap the nut flush draw on the flop with 3 opponents along for the ride.


[ QUOTE ]
I love the thread the other day when you said " my woman was watching me play"

Thats a way a real player talks



[/ QUOTE ]

That is how a real player talks when his woman isn't listening/watching. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

--Rico

[Trix]

It costs a bet more...

[gamblore99]

IMO bet/fold on the turn seems to make most sense. If your up against a flush draw they probably just check it, if A4 you might get a check or raise and AT, or a set you will be for sure raised. The bet here is mainly for information. As someone already mention this concept is in HFAP betting a hand that if beaten has no outs. someone please respond

[Rico Suave]

Hey Trix:

[ QUOTE ]
It costs a bet more...

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you referring to check calling it down?

--Rico

[Trix]

yep.