Fearless or foolish with this underpair? [Archive]

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chesspain

05-23-2004, 12:47 PM

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed)

I apologize for peppering the board with hands today, but I want to make sure I'm staying on top of my game as I climb out of the slump I've been in for the past week.

This is my first hand at the table. I have no prior knowledge about the BB, other than my witnessing the tail end of the last hand, in which he apparently openlimped UTG with 85s. My only note on MP1 reads "called 1.5 from the SB with AQo against a PF openraiser."

Preflop: chesspain is CO with 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif. chesspain posts a blind of $2.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 raises, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, chesspain (poster) calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players) 
BB checks, MP1 bets, chesspain raises, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players) 
BB checks, MP1 checks, chesspain bets, BB calls, MP1 folds.

River: (8.25 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players) 
BB checks, chesspain checks.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB
Main Pot: 8.25 BB, between chesspain and BB. > Pot won by chesspain (8.25 BB).

Results in white below: 
BB shows Js Ks (one pair, queens).
chesspain shows 7d 7s (two pair, queens and sevens).
Outcome: chesspain wins 8.25 BB.

Crumpled Ear

05-23-2004, 12:52 PM

To me, this seems a bit overaggressive. Considering there was a raise before the flop there may be a pocket overpair. With two overcards on the board, there are a lot of ways to lose. I think I'd fold this one and wait for another battle. Glad you won, though.

BigBaitsim (milo)

05-23-2004, 01:02 PM

I like my 77 hand posted shortly after you posted this one a bit better for this play. In that hand the flop came out with a low card and 99 after the preflop raise. In that situation, he likely had a big pair or an A with a big kicker. The 99 would be scary with my raise and he was unlikely to have improved at all. With the turn an ugly rag and my bet, he had to be pretty sure he was beat. A big pair is much less likely to fear this flop, AK might be willing to draw into it, and there's a good chance of a Q out there.

BigBaitsim (milo)

05-23-2004, 01:34 PM

I like the turn bet after checked to, and like your checking through the river. He's not going to call with a loser.

Saborion

05-23-2004, 03:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I apologize for peppering the board with hands today, but I want to make sure I'm staying on top of my game as I climb out of the slump I've been in for the past week.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's usually a good idea. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Given your read on the BB, calling pre is not wrong, especially not with position.

I think you played ok, but I'm not the one to judge. I really hate BB's call on the turn though.

chesspain

05-23-2004, 03:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Given your read on the BB, calling pre is not wrong, especially not with position.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you mean in comparison to three-betting, in order to try to isolate the openraiser? Because there is no way I'm folding 77 for one bet when I'm getting no less than 4.5-1.

Saborion

05-23-2004, 03:17 PM

No, actually I was comparing it to you wanting a raiser and a caller to call for one bet with a medium/low pair, and you were sort of sure the BB would come along. But as you said, you're getting 4.5:1, so maybe a raise would be better if you thought you might be able to isolate the pre-flop raiser.

Makes me wonder though. Do you call a MP open-raise with 7's in the BB if it's folded back to you, getting 3.5:1 on your call?

Thomsen

05-23-2004, 03:31 PM

Would you have called if he bet out on the riv ?

Nate tha' Great

05-23-2004, 04:14 PM

3-betting before the flop is better than either calling or folding. If he's got overcards, you'll win a hair more than 50% of the time when it's heads up, and the facts that (a) you have position on him and (b) there's some extra dead money out there ... gives you enough of an overlay for those times that he has a big pair. You'd hate for him to have something like AJ on that flop, making you the heavy favorite, only to have your plans foiled because BB's hand contained a Q.

Rest of the hand is okay.

Nate tha' Great

05-23-2004, 04:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Makes me wonder though. Do you call a MP open-raise with 7's in the BB if it's folded back to you, getting 3.5:1 on your call?

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't imagine folding that hand in the BB unless the preflop raiser is an absolute rock.

Saborion

05-23-2004, 05:05 PM

Yah, I'm picking something I can add to my pre-flop play.
Time to do a bit of experimenting.

What should the cutoff, in general be? 7's? 6's?

Nate tha' Great

05-23-2004, 05:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yah, I'm picking something I can add to my pre-flop play.
Time to do a bit of experimenting.

What should the cutoff, in general be? 7's? 6's?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it depends on how well the preflop raiser plays; I'd defend with 55 and above at the very least, and maybe lower than that.

EDIT: FWIW, I posted a question about this (defending heads up with a pair) in the midlimits forum. To be totally honest, at some point I defaulted into defending with *any* pair here, but I'm not certain if that's correct.