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View Full Version : Top pair, when to lead-out, when to check-raise?


ddubois
05-22-2004, 05:35 AM
I understand the idea behind flop check-raising my draws with a PFR near my right.

I understand the idea behind check-raising the turn to get more bets in.

I do not understand the theory behind when to check-raise the flop with 1) top-pair good kicker 2) top pair bad kicker 3) middle pair, or an 4) overpair, versus when to lead out. I think if the board is coordinated, I want to check-raise to make certain draws, like overcards or gutshots, fold. Is this pretty much it? What else weighs in the decision? To exploit aggressiveness of the people near the button - or those people near the button who will always bet when checked to? (With these two groups of people, wouldn't I rather wait until a big street to check-raise them?)

While it's true the flop check-raise is a means of getting people to put 2 bets in on the flop, I think the downside would be that it would tend to freeze action on later streets - not something I want to do with a strong hand. Is how vulnerable you feel a reason to check-raise? Are the considerations almost strictly positional?

I check-raised in this hand, but honestly, I'm not sure why. It "felt" right:

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(5 players) </font>
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Button calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, Button folds.

Turn: (6 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players) </font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, MP1 folds.

Final Pot: 7 BB
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: 6 BB, won by Hero.</font>
<font color="#990066">Pot 2: 1 BB, overbet by Hero.</font>

ddubois
05-23-2004, 04:47 PM
*bump*

PT says I check-raise 1.26% of possible actions.

Alobar
05-23-2004, 06:43 PM
So much depends on the situation and the read and weather or not you think someone will bet if you check, and where that bet will come from. There is a whole chapter on the subject in theory of poker as well as talk in HFAP. I suggest you give those a read as it will be more valuable than prolly what will be gleaned from this thread....good luck

Saborion
05-23-2004, 06:55 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I understand the idea behind flop check-raising my draws with a PFR near my right.


[/ QUOTE ]

To your left.

You should consider check-raising the flop when you have a decent hand that you need to protect, just as in your QTo hand. Or if you flop top pair with a weak kicker on a scary board. Then you might be better of checking and see how things develop before you decide what to do.

[ QUOTE ]
I think if the board is coordinated, I want to check-raise to make certain draws, like overcards or gutshots, fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of the draws won't fold. The ones that usually folds are gut-shots. An open-ended straight draw or a flush draw won't fold regardless of what you do.