$3/$6 2 underpair hands

[butters]

Both of these happened in an hour session earlier today. Table was reasonable, no maniacs, but no real strong spots either. 4-5 to the flop with no raise, 2 or 3 with a preflop raise.

I don't think I played either of these hands well and I'm looking for a better line.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, Hero raises, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds.

Flop: (5.33 SB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
Hero bets, MP2 calls.

Turn: (3.66 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
Hero bets, MP2 calls.

River: (5.66 BB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
Hero bets, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 7.66 BB


Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero raises, Button calls, SB folds, BB folds.

Flop: (5.33 SB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
Hero bets, Button calls.

Turn: (3.66 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
Hero bets, Button calls.

River: (5.66 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.66 BB

[JohnShaft]

Butters, I can see why you posted these hands.
I would say you spewed chips on both of them.
The problem is you didn't just get non-ideal flops on both, you got BAD flops.
Two overcards, KJ/AQ, just about leaves you drawing to two outs against typical bad Party 3/6 coldcallers.
Advantage is your headsup in both, disadvantage is that you are out of position. It basically means you'll have to put a bet in on every street, whether you want to or not, if you want to see a showdown.

I think check-folding on the Turn is advisable against certain opponents a fair percentage of the time. If not most of the time.

Whether I get called weak tight for saying this I don't know.
I just know in these spots you'll be shown the A,K,Q, or J the majority of the time. And you've let them make the most of what will be a weak cold-calling hand.
Save these bets going in when you have the stronger hand, say AK on either street. Then think about check-raising the Turn.
In these hands I would consider checking the Turn for sure. And folding to a bet a large percentage of the time against many opponents.

If you had position, or there was one overcard, or you had any hope of getting to a cheap showdown, it would be a different matter.

[PokerNoob]

Talk about discomfort, out of position, heads up, with two overcards on the flop, even an ace in hand two, and they keep calling. Thing is, they could be doggedly holding on to underpairs or even AQ in hand one. But if you don't bet, they will with anything. I think I need to learn to checkfold these turns, per John Shaft and combine that with checkraising turns or rivers with the goods.

[butters]

I'm having trouble accepting the flop call as meaning anything. It's heads up, and I've seen people call down with high cards or any pair, so I fire again on the turn.

With two overcards, betting the flop and check/folding the turn if called might be the way to go. I definitely need to checkraise more on the turn with my stronger hands to set up a cheap showdown with my weaker ones.

[JohnShaft]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm having trouble accepting the flop call as meaning anything.

[/ QUOTE ]
Flop calls often, if not usually, mean nothing. Especially from bad players. But that leaves you betting the Turn and likely only getting called if your beat, and consigned to putting another bet in on the river often.


[ QUOTE ]
With two overcards, betting the flop and check/folding the turn if called might be the way to go. I definitely need to checkraise more on the turn with my stronger hands to set up a cheap showdown with my weaker ones.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's the key. If people are going to auto-bet if you check the Turn when they have worse hands or gutshots then checkraising your good hands leaves them giving up a bet or two every time they do it.
Headsup out of position if you check here with a strong hand, and with your underpair to two overcards, it will likely make them only bet at you with something that beats you.