Short stacked- How low before going all in with marginal cards?

[AA suited]

What I've learned in my 50 10+1 SnG's is that if you're really short stacked (4BB left) you have no choice but to go all in with marginal cards (Ax, kx, any 2 face cards, suited connectors (78+)). you no longer have the luxury of waiting for optimal/premium cards to go all in with.

1) Is 4BB a good general rule? If not, then what is?

2) How low do you let your stack go before going all in with the Marginal cards i mentioned above?

3) What do you consider marginal cards to go all in with?

THX

[thomastem]

It's a good question but a loaded one. Too many variables (maybe others will touch on) to go through. The waiting for premium hands part of your question hints you may have the wrong thought process for when the blinds get big.

As for when is short desperate, 10 BBs or lower it's time to puch unless there is a stack smaller than yourself and moving up a position means $$$.

Waiting for premium hands? What are those? /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[AA suited]

yup, i'm assuming that you are the one with the least amount of chips. but even if you have the 2nd shortest stack, i probably would still do it since, with 4BB left, you will be the shortest very soon.

[37offsuit]

Start using your smallish stack to attack the other small or medium stacks and steal their blinds. Your stack can probably still dent theirs and they may be cautious if you seem to have been waiting for a premium hand. In other words, don't worry so much about the cards as your position. Every blind you steal is another time around the table you can wait for a money hand.

Remember too that if you're going to take a crap shoot with any two, might as well pick a hand with limpers, because either they will fold giving you extra chips in the pot, or they'll all call you and on the occassion that you get lucky, you'll quadruple up.

[FloppedFlush]

"As for when is short desperate, 10 BBs or lower it's time to puch unless there is a stack smaller than yourself and moving up a position means $$$. "

10 BBs? That seems a little early to be truly desperate. That would be about the point where it becomes all-in or fold territory for me, and I'd certainly be willing to try to steal the blinds if I can be first one in with some semblance of a hand, but I don't think it becomes desperate enough to move in with the first K4 or 33 or 75s that comes along until you get down to about 5 or 6 BBs.

[AA suited]

if i am in the $ (top 3) and have the shortest stack, but 10bb, i will still go all in with 22 to steal the blinds of the other 2.

obviously, i'm gambling they dont a pair then i'm praying to luck they dont pair up or the board doesn't put down 2 pairs /images/graemlins/smile.gif

if they dont have a pair, then i have a 2% advantage over them. if they do, then i'm good as dead. /images/graemlins/ooo.gif

[tolbiny]

"move in with the first K4 or 33 or 75s that comes along until you get down to about 5 or 6 BBs."

The problem with this thinking is that when you are pusing all-in with 5-6BB's several things happen.
1. you do not have enough chips to put a serious dent in and large stacks so you will be less likely to pick up the blinds.
2. when you do get called and double up you will still likely be the small stack, and right back into the same position in 5-10 hands.
3. often the blinds are moving up quickly and you can go from having 6bb to haveing 3bb without seeing a pushable hand. At least with 10bbs when the blinds double you still have enough to steal the blinds sometimes.
anyone agree/disagree with these thoughts

[T0asty]

10 BBs seem way to high to start risking all your chips, if the BB was 100, that's T1k, I'm often less than this at this point and I'm far from in a panic. If the BB was 200, again you would have T2k chips and in a compftable position.

I think it depends more on how many players are left, once down to bubble play it becomes more important to steal as you are obviously paying more per hand BB/4.

If I'm SSed I usually risk being Blinded to death waiting for an Ax at the least (before I reach this point I'll try to steal blinds with better cards when my stack will still dent everyone elses). There have been times when I have won on my final BB or SB and tripled up and made a comeback from there.

Sometimes you get cold cards and are destined to be blinded out.

[T0asty]

Also, by playing this way you can often sneak into the money by just hanging in 1-3 extra orbits and as a low stack most of your EV is currently in 3rd place.

I'll just add that in my stats my biggest finish % is in 1st place, I'm not a | 1st (1) 2nd (3) 3rd (17) | Player...