Randy Johnson, Griffey, and Arod

[Josh W]

I just read the thread on Randy's perfect game, and was kinda stunned by a few of the comments. It seems that Randy is generally well respected here.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be respected, but it's always amazed me how people assume Mariners fans would be upset at Arod the most, then Griffey, then Randy.

Arod has a bad rap. Yeah, he's said some dumb stuff, but, when his contract expired with the mariners, THE ONLY OTHER OFFER HE RECEIVED (besides Texas) was the Mariners, at 3 (or maybe 4) years for 12.5 million. Compare that with 10 yrs at 250 million. Moreover, the Mariners weren't willing to negotiate further. An absolute joke.

Griffey wanted to be traded to a team that had spring training in the grapefruit league, so he could spend more time with his family. Immensely understandable.

But Randy, in his last (partial) season with Seattle, basically quit on the team. I'm too tired to look up the stats now, but he was horrible, demanded to be traded to a 'winner' (after making the playoffs 2 outta the past 3 years), and was just short of sabotaging the team (including clubhouse fights with Jay Buhner).

Of the three future HOFers who left Seattle in the late 90s, it's Randy who deserves the most spite...

All that said, I don't dislike the guy. His first no hitter was on my birthday /images/graemlins/smile.gif. His allstar game appearance w/ John Kruk was the greatest atbat in baseball history. His humility after blowing game 5 in the 1995 ALDS vs. New York was refreshing. Seeing him bat is funny.

And he's not a Laker, which is cool, too.

[bernie]

RJ was treated like crap (so was griffey, to a certain extent) by the M's near the end, and most of the fans know this. Many say he refused a contract. He was never offered one. But then they came out with one so lowball there was no way he could take it. It was well documented in the paper up here.

The last year he was here, he was having alot of back problems.

The Ms screwed up, yet again, with a star player. If Ichiro wasnt japanese, he may have been gone too on his last negotiation.

Ms got their stadium. I dont think we'll be seeing them in the playoffs anytime soon. This can also go into how the fans could possibly support this club with how they absolutely screwed the fans, but, like religion, the followers choose to ignore what happened. The organization sucks. Always has.

Im thoroughly enjoying watching them plummet this season.

b

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

The organization sucks. Always has.

Derek Lowe and Jason Varitek for Heathcliff Slocumb proves that.

[Sooga]

Let's make a laundry list of the talent the M's have squandered over the years...

a young Tino Martinez and a young Jeff Nelson... though they did get back perennial all-stars Russ Davis and Sterling Hitchcock in return.

a young Jose Cruz Jr.... though they did get lights-out closers Paul Spoljaric and Mike Timlin in return.

a young Mike Hampton... though they did get Silver Slugger Eric Anthony in return.

and on a lesser note, they gave away Shawn Estes for fireballer Salomon Torres.

.. and of course the aforementioned Lowe/Varitek for Slocumb deal, which ranks way up there for bad trades for ANY organization, much less the M's.

Now I understand each organization has had their share of crappy deals... But the amount of talent the M's threw away in the mid 90's is shocking.

[andyfox]

"The last year he was here, he was having alot of back problems."

So he goes to Houston in the middle of the year. Here are his stats:

With Seattle 9-10 4.35 ERA
With Houston 10-1 1.28 ERA

His back sure got better in a hurry.

[andyfox]

The ten years at $250 was a sick joke, a figure that shocked everybody when it was announced. No other organization, not even the Yankees would have come close to that (although it did goad the Yankees into giving a somewhat similar figure to Derek Jeter, who, after coming within one hit of winning the batting title last year, may not get one more hit this year).

You're just upset the Mariners look like they may lose 116 games this year.

[Sooga]

I've told Josh since 2001, sooner or later, that team of 55 year olds is gonna get old, and when the wheels come off on that team, it's gonna get ugly. REALLY ugly. Olerud's 35. Boone's 35. Moyer is 41. Ichiro isn't Ichiro anymore. Edgar is 70. They got some nice young arms on the staff, but their offense is really ugly right now, and from what I can tell they don't have any hot future prospects either. I wonder if Harold Reynolds will come back.....

[southerndog]

[ QUOTE ]
The organization sucks. Always has.

Derek Lowe and Jason Varitek for Heathcliff Slocumb proves that.

[/ QUOTE ]

What, the Red Sox got the better end of a trade?

[nolanfan34]

Finally, a post right in my wheelhouse. A Mariners thread!

I generally agree with much of this thread. If you want to learn about the morbid history of the Mariners, check out Art Thiel's book, "Out of Left Field". After reading that, I don't blame Johnson for wanting to leave after how he was treated. He shouldn't have quit on the team, but since he wasn't A-Rod or Griffey, he pretty much got shat on.

The best part of the book is knowing how Griffey realizes he made a huge mistake leaving. I feel bad for the guy personally, with the injuries and all. He provided so many memories for me growing up in the Seattle area, going to dozens of games throughout the years.

As for A-Rod, I don't blame him for leaving. The offer the M's made was more in the neighborhood of $15 mil per year by the end of the contract, but wasn't enough years for his liking. The reason Seattle fans hate him isn't because he left, but because he left claiming "I want to win a World Series title" and it wasn't about the money. I swear, if he had just been honest and said "I'm excited to come to a good ball club, and they just knocked it out of the park with their offer" I don't think people would have faulted him as much.

As for this season, yikes. I'm glad I get tickets for free, otherwise I probably wouldn't be able to stomach going the way this team has gone downhill. It will be facinating to watch, because the ownership has seriously forgotten that Seattle is the epitome of a fair-weather fan city. If this team tanks again, it doesn't matter how nice Safeco Field is - they ain't averaging 20,000 per game next year if they lose 100 this year.

[nolanfan34]

Great summary. We might be adding the Guillen trade to that list if he keeps hitting over .300.

OT list of my all-time favorite M's.

C - Bob Kearney
1B - Alvin Davis
2B - Jack Perconte
SS - Spike Owen
3B - Jim Presley
LF - Phil Bradley/Mike Kingery (tie)
CF - Griffey
RF - Buhner
DH - Edgar

SP - Floyd Bannister
SP - Mark Langston
SP - Billy Swift
SP - Erik Hanson
SP - Johnson

Closer - Mike Schooler

Ok...I'll stop now. I'm probably having too much fun with this.

[jdl22]

While on the subject of the Mariners here's why I hate them:

- they're in the same city as the Huskies
- I used to live in Eugene, OR (wish I was there now, oh well in three weeks I'll be back home) which is pretty much halfway between Seattle and San Francisco. I've always been a Giants fan since my mother is from the bay area. Because fox sports NW (should be called fox sports Seattle because Oregon teams get no coverage) is the only fox sports channel available in Eugene on cable I could only watch the Giants when they were on ESPN. However, if I wanted to watch 130 Mariners games obviously those are readily available.

So just to summarize: both teams roughly the same distance away. Both teams winning a lot of games in the regular season. Both teams obviously will leave their fans crushed after blowing it in the playoffs or world series. Both teams love to get rid of beloved players and managers (I feel like I should hate the Giants after letting Will Clark, Matt Williams and Dusty go). My team gets about 20 games shown on cable. Other team gets 130 games shown on cable. I know it's not rational but for that reason I hate the Ms.

Oh yeah 1 more thing. Huck the Fuskies!

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
(should be called fox sports Seattle because Oregon teams get no coverage)

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you talking about? They show that promo with the Duck and Beaver mascots all the time! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[stir]

The stats don't lie. Randy sandbagged the M's, and more importantly the fans that paid his salary, in order to "force" the M's into trading him. Bad back, my a#%.

[ThaSaltCracka]

I love the M's

first of all Randy Johnson is a Jackass. I don't care how the management treated him, he gave up on the team which is ridiculous. If I was on that team I would hate him, how can you give up on your own damn team. Leave the contract stuff in the office, don't care it on to the field. If you don't have a problem with that then maybe you like big ego's . The type of selfish behavior Johnson exhibited was ridiculous.

Junior is great, and few people in Seattle dislike him. Most people could see why he wanted to leave, he wanted to be closer to his family and home, also he signed for under his market value when he signed with Cincy, so clearly that wasn't about money. Jr. made baseball popular in Seattle, and he left a huge mark on young kids in that era. He was a God to me and I was fortunate enough to meet him twice. He could have signed with NY(BTW I like the Yankees too) and I think people would still like him.

A-Rod..... greedy lier. Okay I guess anyone would have taken the money too so I guess I can't fault him for that, but the one thing about him that pisses me off is he said it wasn't about the money. He wanted to go to a team that was a winner so he chooses TEXAS the worst damn team in the AL West for the biggest damn contract ever. Yeah, it wasn't about the money... spare me the bs.

I think the m's will turn it around somewhat, but the playoffs are not likely, hopefully they can cut away some of this deadwood and reload for next year.

The need to fire Howard Lincoln!!!! and sign Carlos Beltran in the offseason.

[ThaSaltCracka]

the reason why FSNW plays just Seattle area sports is because 1. There are 3 pro teams in Seattle, 1 in Portland. 2. The college teams in WA are better than the college teams in OR. 3. Oregon sucks just as much as the huskies!!!!

[Grivan]

It's fine you guys us Huskies know you are just jealous of all of our sanctions.

[ThaSaltCracka]

dude the Huskies really do suck.

[jdl22]

I have no issues with 1. It is indeed true that while you guys have 3 bad professional teams in Seattle we only have 1 bad professional team in Portland. Note that Paul Allen owns two of those.

2 is just not true. Let's look at football:
2003 PAC-10 STANDINGS
. CONF. OVERALL
TEAM W L W L
USC 7 1 12 1
Washington State 6 2 10 3
Oregon 5 3 8 5
California 5 3 8 6
Oregon State 4 4 8 5
Washington 4 4 6 6
UCLA 4 4 6 7
Arizona State 2 6 5 7
Stanford 2 6 4 7
Arizona 1 7 2 10

I would say the Oregon schools had the edge there considering how pathetic UW was with their off the field shenanigans. If we consider the last 5 or the last 10 years there has been no better team in the Pac 10 than my ducks.

Mens Basketball:
PAC-10 STANDINGS
. CONF. OVERALL
TEAM W L W L
Stanford 17 1 30 2
Washington 12 6 19 12
Arizona 11 7 20 10
Oregon 9 9 18 13
California 9 9 13 15
USC 8 10 13 15
Washington State 7 11 13 16
UCLA 7 11 11 17
Oregon State 6 12 12 16
Arizona State 4 14 10 17

This season I would consider a push. The two state teams were terrible. UW was better than Oregon in the regular season but Oregon made the final four of the NIT which I think is better than getting knocked out in the first round of the big dance. If we go back beyond this season it's a joke. 3 of these teams have been terrible, the other is Oregon. Since Ernie got to Oregon we have been competitive in the Pac 10 every year where as the Washington teams have been competing with Oregon State for that 8th spot to get into the Pac 10 tourney. If you add Gonzaga as one of the Washington schools then you may have a case but even Washington could be competitive in their weak conference.

Other sports:
Clearly Oregon has the edge. Oregon track is legendary. While we haven't dominated the national scene as we used to, clearly we have the best team in the Northwest. There should be no debate about this. Women's basketball is similar. Without a doubt Oregon has been the best Northwest team in women's basketball. In Softball we are reasonable now (but we did suck just a couple years ago). The only edge the Washington schools have is in gymnastics (Oregon doesn't have it, OSU does but they probably suck like in everything else), women's volleyball (both Washington schools are decent, Oregon and Oregon state are both absolutely terrible). You could also make an argument for both mens and womens soccer because both UO and OSU either don't have a team or that team sucks. However the best team in the West is the University of Portland both in mens and womens.

So lets summarize:
Major sports:

football - last year was even or Oregon has better teams, last 10 years Oregon dominates without question. Last twenty years is a push.

basketball - Washington schools had more impressive season, Oregon had better postseason or postseason was even if you add Gonzaga to the mix. last 10 years Oregon dominates. Last twenty years the Northwest dominated by OSU then Oregon

Minor sports:
Oregon easily the best in the most important of these. In some of the others the Washington Schools dominate or the University of Portland is the dominant school.

If we were in Hawaii and volleyball were king then you would be correct. Unfortunately for you in the two states in question the only sports that matter have the Oregon schools better than the Washington schools. Furthermore in most of the sports that are of less importance Oregon or another Oregon school is better.

as for 3 my Ducks are better than the huskies in pretty much every sport.

Sorry to be so lengthy, I'm homesick.

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
2 is just not true. Let's look at football:
2003 PAC-10 STANDINGS
. CONF. OVERALL
TEAM W L W L
USC 7 1 12 1
Washington State 6 2 10 3
Oregon 5 3 8 5
California 5 3 8 6
Oregon State 4 4 8 5
Washington 4 4 6 6
UCLA 4 4 6 7
Arizona State 2 6 5 7
Stanford 2 6 4 7
Arizona 1 7 2 10


[/ QUOTE ]

Who cares about the standings. The Washington schools went 4-0 against the Oregon schools in football. That's a blowout. Same thing happened in 2002. And WSU has had three 10 win seasons in a row, so claiming the Ducks were the best team in the last five years is questionable at best, laughable being more likely.

Basketball I would agree is a push overall, although I still think it tips in Washington's favor since the Huskies made the NCAAs. My Cougs pretty much stunk again, but at least they swept UCLA.

As for other sports...no one gives a rip about softball, gymnastics, etc. I'm even a former track runner, and I will admit no one cares about that either. None of the NW teams have been dominate for a long time. In fact, WSU/Oregon was a pretty good rivalry in the 70s and 80s, and I don't think it was dominated completely by the Ducks. I know Henry Rono set a world record while running for WSU, in Husky Stadium.

Of course the real reason FSNW is heavily Washington, is the fact the studio is in Bellevue, and all of the producers live around there. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ThaSaltCracka]

you can try ti argue anyway you want that Oregon's colleges are better in sports if you want. Lets get one thing clear though. After Akili Smith left Oregon no one has cared about their football team, Oregon St has had much more success as of late. However, neither of those two teams have been as good as WSU the last couple years. and Neither of those teams have been better than UW in the past. Oregon and Oregon state will forever be wastelands on the college football scenes.... sorry to burst your bubble.

As for basketball, Oregon St. has a decent histroy of putting some good players into the NBA (Barry and Payton) they have very little success anywhere else. The ducks will soon suck again as their good players from the past two years are graduating to NBA obscuroty. Both OS and UO have mediocere at best Basketball programs. UW and WSU might not be any better but lets be honest they all suck and none should be any part of a conservation involving premier basketball programs.

Now as for the Pro Teams, the M's have been good for the past several seasons, this year they may suck but thats irrelavant. The Seahawks made the playoffs this year which is pretty good and the sonics are average. They probably make the playoffs in the east. You guys have the Blazers who had been good but now no one cares about them because they are all a bunch of jailbirds.

Other sports:
who gives a [censored] about other sports??????

[jdl22]

You must be drunk (if you were in Eugene I would have said stoned).

[ QUOTE ]
After Akili Smith left Oregon no one has cared about their football team, Oregon St has had much more success as of late. However, neither of those two teams have been as good as WSU the last couple years. and Neither of those teams have been better than UW in the past. Oregon and Oregon state will forever be wastelands on the college football scenes.... sorry to burst your bubble.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't be serious here.

Hear of a guy named Joey Harrington? He graduated 3 seasons ago. You may recall that that season Oregon went something and 1, got thoroughly screwed out of the BCS title game and thumped Colorado who at the time everybody said was playing better than anyone else in College football. No Washington school has had even close to that kind of success since UW split the national title. Admittedly the last couple of years have been rough for us but to say that we haven't done anything good since Akili left is insanely ridiculous.

You are basically correct in basketball although Oregon did go to the elite 8 a few seasons ago and won the pac 10 title and the tourney title the same year. Again neither Washington school (nor the farmers in Corvallis) has had anywhere near this kind of success.

As for the pro teams what can I say? The Blazers suck now because they sold all the thugs that could play in favor of good hearted guys that are mediocre. They are still much better than the Sonics that's for sure. In the other sports I go for the bay area teams and honestly don't pay much attention to Seattle teams (other than getting pissed because the Ms are always on).

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
Hear of a guy named Joey Harrington? He graduated 3 seasons ago. You may recall that that season Oregon went something and 1, got thoroughly screwed out of the BCS title game and thumped Colorado who at the time everybody said was playing better than anyone else in College football.

[/ QUOTE ]
quit bitching, I forgot about him, yeah they were all right.

[ QUOTE ]
You are basically correct in basketball although Oregon did go to the elite 8 a few seasons ago and won the pac 10 title and the tourney title the same year. Again neither Washington school (nor the farmers in Corvallis) has had anywhere near this kind of success.

[/ QUOTE ]
dude one good season in the last 50 years means NOTHING!!!

[ArchAngel71857]

While I have no problem with RJ, I think it is interesting that after Griffey and A-ROd left, Seattle was awesome. There have been some comments that both players were a poison in the clubhouse. Now Arod leaves Texas, and Texas is awesome. Coincidence? I'll be interested to see what happens when Griffey leaves Cincy.

-AA

[CCass]

The Reds seem to be doing pretty well with Griffey right now. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ThaSaltCracka]

see I heard Johnson was more a cancer in the clubhouse than either of them.
Remember after Griffey and A-Rod left the M's had a lot of money to spend on solid role players, and thats what they did.

[ArchAngel71857]

see I heard Johnson was more a cancer in the clubhouse than either of them.

oh really? I hadn't heard that, but t wouldn't be too shocking. Arizona seems to liek RJ enough I think, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a cancer. It still is interesting that every tem AROD leaves (and it is too early to tell, Texas) gets good. I guess when he leaves the yankees then, they will win like 9 or 10 in a row. If that's the case, i want the Indians to sign him then get rid of him quickly.

-AA

[andyfox]

Against the Dodgers here in L.A.

Anything you guys want me to yell at him? My 14-year old loves to be a jerk, so all suggestions appreciated.

[ArchAngel71857]

Nice Mullet. I'm partial to Kentucky Waterfall myself.

-AA

[ThaSaltCracka]

tell him he is the ugliest man in the world.

[ThaSaltCracka]

I also heard he was a cancer in Arizona all the way up until the season after they won the WS. I guess he was always a cranky guy and kept to himself. Apparently now he is reaching out and mentoring the young pitchers in arizona. Maybe the lion finally found his heart.

[andyfox]

He didn't have his best stuff tonight, only 93 mph at his best. Gave up only one hit through five innings though, then tired in the 6th and 7th. He got the win though as the D-backs prevailed 6-3.

The Dodgers look sick.