Having a bad run? No worries, just come to one of my tables!

[joker122]

...because I'll pay you off.

Hand 1:
Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: (6.33 SB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players) </font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button folds, BB calls.

Turn: (4.16 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (8.16 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.16 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
BB shows Ad Js (full house, aces full of jacks).
Hero shows Qs Qd (two pair, aces and queens).
Outcome: BB wins 10.16 BB. </font>

My plan was to fold to a check raise, and then I called...

Hand 2:
Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, Hero calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 players) </font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB folds, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (5 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
<font color="CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
<font color="CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
UTG+1 shows 9d 9h (two pair, jacks and nines).
Hero shows Ad 7d (two pair, aces and jacks).
Outcome: Hero wins 9 BB. </font>

OK, I got lucky here because I was against a maniac. But let's not be results oriented.

[anatta]

Just check the turn in hand 1. Hand 2 is fine. Headsup you should be calling down a great deal as players frequenly make moves when it is just you and them. Keep an eye on players and see what their raises, particularly on the turn, mean.

[Clarkmeister]

You know it's OK to check the turn in hand 1, right?

Hand 2 is fine.

[FletchJr.]

Hand 1. why would you bet the turn? and if you did bet the turn why wouldn't you lay down when he check raises you. Did you honestly think your hand was good?

[BeerMoney]

You don't fold hand 2 to a preflop raise?

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
You don't fold hand 2 to a preflop raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

I do, but no one raised.

[dedmoney]

I def would have checked turn on 1.

I would have also crapped a puppy on hand 2 when the second J came down, but would have still called.

[BottlesOf]

Really? Check the turn?

At first glance this seemed a little weak. Is it correct in this case because there are not that many other hands he could have besides an ace? Is this even true?

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]

I would have also crapped a puppy on hand 2 when the second J came down, but would have still called

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, WTF? This guy will make a fine addition to the forum.

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

[ QUOTE ]
I would have also crapped a puppy on hand 2 when the second J came down, but would have still called.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never actually crapped a puppy, do the claws hurt on the way out?

[anatta]

The decision to bet or check the turn headsup is often complicated, but not here. Look at this flop and your hand. Other than a missed big bet, what is the harm that can come with a free card - will your opponent catch something to beat you that he would have folded if you bet? How easy is it to fold if you are raised (tricky aggressive players get lots of free turn cards)? Will checking the turn possibly induce a bluff bet or weak call on the end? Don't forget the mikel. - will betting the turn induce a raise from my LAG opponent so I can three bet my marginal hand...(doesn't apply here)

[asdf1234]

I agree with what others have said about the first one, checking the turn is a good idea a lot of the time.

The second one should probably be folded to the flop 3-bet or to the turn bet unless you're against a LAGish player.

[btspider]

Can someone elaborate on why checking the turn in hand 1 is the best move here? More often than not, bet the turn and check behind on the river is the advice. What makes this situation different?

In this case we do have the way ahead/behind scenario, so I understand the value in checking the turn.. but I'm having trouble determining the point at which we switch from (turn check/river call) to the (turn bet/river check) line.

If the A /images/graemlins/spade.gif was the T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, would checking the turn still be the correct play on a draw heavy board? There seems to be an important concept here which I am just not seeing.