KG's comments

[jdl22]

Here is what Keven Garnett, MVP of the NBA regular season said recently:

[ QUOTE ]
"I'm loadin' up the Uzi. I got a couple M-16s, a couple 9s. I got a couple joints with some silencers on them. I'm just loading clips, a couple grenades. I got a missile launcher with a couple of missiles. I'm ready for war."

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's my question. Why is this offensive at all to anyone? Yes I know that people are actually using M16 in battle but why is making a war reference considered insensitive? KG also made similarly exaggerated claims when before the final game in the Denver series he said there would be a riot. It's pretty clear he doesn't believe there will be warfare on the court nor believed it would be a riot. War references in sports and sports references in war are commonplace. I could see if he had claimed his sacrifice was as great or if he had said "I'm more ready for war here than our troops overseas or some such."

Here are some comments people made at espn.com (http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/mailbagESPN?event_id=5289). To be fair I'm only taking the comments of people that were offended. There were others where people were basically asking the same question I am.

[ QUOTE ]
Sean (Knoxville): Granted this is an intense time of the playoffs, but discrediting all that war is and trying to relate it to a game you play for a few hours a few times a week is very insensitive. You have to use better judgement than that.


[/ QUOTE ]

How is he discrediting any war?

[ QUOTE ]
Lewis (Denver): I think it was a ridiculous comment. Our league MVP sounding of about guns and grenades. My kids look up to these guys as role models, whether they like it or not it is their job to help shape our youth.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Charles: Maybe Mr. Garnett should have considered playing basketball at the NCAA level and taken advantage of the free education it would have supplied.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm. I think Chuck here should actually go to a university. He will here people actually speaking out against our soldiers something Garnett didn't do.

There were similar things said after Kellen Winslow II said "I'm a soldier!" Are these people complaining actually upset or just pretending?

[Sloats]

[ QUOTE ]
Here is what Keven Garnett, MVP of the NBA regular season said recently:

[ QUOTE ]
"I'm loadin' up the Uzi. I got a couple M-16s, a couple 9s. I got a couple joints with some silencers on them. I'm just loading clips, a couple grenades. I got a missile launcher with a couple of missiles. I'm ready for war."

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's my question. Why is this offensive at all to anyone? Yes I know that people are actually using M16 in battle but why is making a war reference considered insensitive? KG also made similarly exaggerated claims when before the final game in the Denver series he said there would be a riot. It's pretty clear he doesn't believe there will be warfare on the court nor believed it would be a riot. War references in sports and sports references in war are commonplace. I could see if he had claimed his sacrifice was as great or if he had said "I'm more ready for war here than our troops overseas or some such."

Here are some comments people made at espn.com (http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/mailbagESPN?event_id=5289). To be fair I'm only taking the comments of people that were offended. There were others where people were basically asking the same question I am.

[ QUOTE ]
Sean (Knoxville): Granted this is an intense time of the playoffs, but discrediting all that war is and trying to relate it to a game you play for a few hours a few times a week is very insensitive. You have to use better judgement than that.


[/ QUOTE ]

How is he discrediting any war?

[ QUOTE ]
Lewis (Denver): I think it was a ridiculous comment. Our league MVP sounding of about guns and grenades. My kids look up to these guys as role models, whether they like it or not it is their job to help shape our youth.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Charles: Maybe Mr. Garnett should have considered playing basketball at the NCAA level and taken advantage of the free education it would have supplied.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm. I think Chuck here should actually go to a university. He will here people actually speaking out against our soldiers something Garnett didn't do.

There were similar things said after Kellen Winslow II said "I'm a soldier!" Are these people complaining actually upset or just pretending?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would be more concerned about a gansta image attached to his comments and the NBA than disrespect to any military action/personal.

[nolanfan34]

I'm not offended by his comments, but I think they are stupid. Any athlete who would compare what they do to "war" is just out of touch with reality. Yes, battling under the basket for 48 minutes, showering, and hopping in your Escalade or Humvee before heading out for the evening is EXACTLY like war.

I just think the timing is bad. It's easy to get caught up with athletic activities, many of us invest way too much time and energy into rooting for respective teams. I know I've wasted many hours doing so. But none of that is like war in any way.

I also agree that for a league that's trying to convince the public that they're not just a bunch of tattooed thugs, comments like this from your MVP aren't exactly going to bring middle America to the games. Garnett only said this because he looked like such a sally after backing off from Peeler's elbow.

Athletes say stupid things all the time. Yet we still buy the tickets.

And JDL22, being a WSU grad, I know there's at least one sports side we can agree on - UW Huskies suck!

[IrishHand]

Garnett's an idiot and a thug - no reason to get worked up because of yet another mindless diatribe from a source like that.

[Utah]

Garnett is anything but a thug. He has been nothing but a role model and a good citizen here in MN and he has never been in trouble for anything during his time in the NBA.

His comments were over the line and he used poor judgement, but they were not really that offensive IMO.

[Slacker13]

[ QUOTE ]
His comments were over the line and he used poor judgement, but they were not really that offensive

[/ QUOTE ]

I totally agree. And I am a Milwaukee Bucks fan.

[elwoodblues]

I agree. I wonder what would make someone say he was a "thug"

[gonores]

[ QUOTE ]
Garnett's an idiot and a thug - no reason to get worked up because of yet another mindless diatribe from a source like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a purely mindless, pathetic, and probably racist statement. I defy you to find just one other item that would lead you to believe Garnett is a thug. I was taken aback by the comments, but ONLY because I hold Garnett to a higher standard than the rest of the league.

[banditbdl]

You're right, because idiot thugs definitely refrain from a fight and subsequent suspension after having an elbow tossed at their jaw.

[jdl22]

Indeed they do. Actually I tend to cheer for Wazzu when they're not playing Oregon. I think it's a bit of the "enemy's enemy is your friend" thing.

Perhaps it's sad, I don't know but I would say one of the 20 greatest moments in my life was watching Kenny Wheaton intercept Damon Huard's pass and take it to the house from section 12 row 5 seat 18 in Autzen Stadium back in the 1993 season. I can imagine no feeling from sports that will ever compare to that.

[IrishHand]

Ummm...what exactly do you think inspired Peeler's ill-advised elbow to the jaw? Could it be the elbow that Garnett dropped on him split-seconds before?

Regardless - you're all welcome to whatever opinion of Garnett you want. My impression of him dates back to his time with one of the mini-Dream Teams a few years back (prior to the 2000 Olympics. I had the misfortune of watching several of their scrimmages against a team of college all-stars. Garnett and Payton were two peas in a pod, screaming, yelling, sweearing, chest-thumping. For someone who loves basketball and international competition and has little or no use for self-agrandizement or hystrionics when representing your country, I was disgusted. To wit, Garnett got a fast-break pass from Payton and dunked on then-collegian Troy Murphy - for context, this was in a sparsely-attended scrimmage where the fans were almost exclusively kids from a local middle school - so Garnett throws down an admittedly impressive dunk and yells - in the direction of these kids, no less - "Who's yo mutha f&^ker?" while pounding his chest with a fist. Real classy. Real appropriate.

He plays with passion, certainly. He's a tremendous talent, no doubt. But he's less an example of what's good about NBA players than he is on the other side of that particular debate. I considered that sort of behavior boorish and embarassing from Charles Barkley, who was far more proven when he was on the original Dream Team. Coming from a relative youngster like Garnett, it just labelled him as a punk in my mind and I've yet to see anything that would cause me to change my opinion.

Kobe Bryant may be a rapist, but at least he approaches the game with respect and doesn't make a spectacle out of himself. Same goes for countless others (except for the rapist part, naturally).

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
Ummm...what exactly do you think inspired Peeler's ill-advised elbow to the jaw? Could it be the elbow that Garnett dropped on him split-seconds before?

[/ QUOTE ]

Could that have been his response to Peeler's first elbow?

[ QUOTE ]
Kobe Bryant may be a rapist, but at least he approaches the game with respect and doesn't make a spectacle out of himself.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL!

Yeah, he showed a lot of respect for the game (and his teammates) in a late season game against Sacramento: After his teammates complained that he was taking too many shots (what a surprise), he only takes one shot (passing up several wide open midrange shots) in the first half of a loss that should have given the Pacific Division to the Kings. Of course, he then comes back the next game and scores 45.

[banditbdl]

You have a point with KG's language, he has always been a potty mouth during games and practices. It is probably his biggest room for improvement. Although, the NBA doesn't seem to care about that as long as it isn't directed toward their officials, that doesn't let KG off the hook and he should take some responsibility to clean up the language. But to jump from there to say KG respects the game less then Kobe of all people is just an utter joke. KG always brings a full effort to the court, has always been loyal to his coach, teammates, and the franchise that took a chance on him. When has Kobe ever displayed meaningful loyalty towards anyone but himself? Where was any sense of responsiblity towards his wife, family, the Lakers, or anyone else for that matter when he had sex/raped a total stranger? Where was Kobe's respect when he decided to take a night off shooting the ball against the Kings in the middle of the playoff race? Where was his respect when he repeatedly called out his coaches and teammates through the media?

[nolanfan34]

Hey, I hear ya. Embarassing to say, but one of my fondest memories has Ryan Leaf in it. 1997 Apple Cup, two long TD's passes to Chris Jackson...I was on the sideline shooting the game for our college TV station. Lamont Thompson's INT's in that game were huge too.

I will root for the Ducks if they're playing the Huskies, but I have to say, I know some UO guys, and lately they've been just as obnoxious as Dawg fans the last couple of years. Thankfully we keep thumping the Ducks each year. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[jdl22]

Why do we always play you in Pullman? This year it was finally in Eugene, but for 4 in a row or something like that it was up in your place.

As for the obnoxious duck fans sadly I have to agree. The problem is that in 1993 the year before we went to the Rose Bowl there were normally maybe 25000 fans at the games that weren't against UW, USC,UCLA or OSU. Some of the non pac10 games against weak teams like Idaho had barely 20,000. Now even after they've expanded the stadium it sells out every game even for WAC opponents. These fans now expect us to win and are obnoxious. I have actually heard people (though thankfully only a few idiots) that think Belotti should be fired. That fascinates me. I remember being excited in 1989 when we made the Independence bowl. Now people are getting pissed because we're not in a BCS game every year. Fair weather fans never cease to amaze me.

[IrishHand]

[ QUOTE ]
KG always brings a full effort to the court, has always been loyal to his coach, teammates, and the franchise that took a chance on him.

[/ QUOTE ]
He brings full effort to the court - I said that already. The rest is pure nonsense. He's loyal to his coach because he's the feature player on the team and the offense and defense is built around him. No cause for complaint = no complaints. And loyal to the franchise? Tell me you're joking! His presence in Minnesota has absolutely nothing to do with anything other than the league-record salary (at the time) that he was given and the massive-dollar extension he was given before this season. Had Minnesota not been prepared to pay him in excess of $20M a year, he'd have taken his act to somewhere that did. He held the Wolves hostage and earned a deal which crippled their efforts to bring in more talent. It's easy to be loyal when your team overpays you...Allan Houston is incredibly loyal to the Knicks too. True loyalty is when you take less money to stay with a team and in a sitation that is good for you (note Rick Fox taking a LOT less to remain in LA several years back because his wife was there and he'd be able to continue his acting stuff during the summer).


[ QUOTE ]
When has Kobe ever displayed meaningful loyalty towards anyone but himself?

[/ QUOTE ]
The exact same times that Garnett has - much like nearly every other player in pro sports. (Note A-Rod declaring - without laughing even - at his press conference when he signed with the Rangers that his top priority was winning.) My point, however, had nothing to do with loyalty in the NBA - there is next-to-none. Loyalty in the NBA and in pro sports is generally subservient to contractual considerations. My point was respecting the game. A player who behaves like he's just climbed Mt. Everest when he makes a great dunk to bring his team back within 15 points in the 3rd quarter is an embarassment to himself and the game. (Same rationale applies to hitters who admire home runs, football players who practice their foolish-looking end zone celebrations, etc.) The game is about the two teams involved and one of them winning. Much as I might like watching individual players, their individual success or failure is a matter of indifference to me. If a player wants to celebrate after a game-winning shot, that's perfectly appropriate - but that's about the only time that there's cause for celebration.


[ QUOTE ]
Where was any sense of responsiblity towards his wife, family, the Lakers, or anyone else for that matter when he had sex/raped a total stranger?

[/ QUOTE ]
He's admitted a mistake - but let's be honest. The mistake was in getting caught. His behavior is symptomatic of a problem which can be found in all pro sports. Infidelity, crime, drugs, legal issues - they're all there. Ruben Patterson raped his babysitter a couple years back - the only difference? Ruben's a marginal player. Kobe gets the spotlight because, well, he's Kobe. I'm not excusing his behavior - it was despicable and he merits and scorn he receives for it. However, until he's found guilty of rape, I don't think he's any different from the majority of NBA players.

[ QUOTE ]
Where was Kobe's respect when he decided to take a night off shooting the ball against the Kings in the middle of the playoff race?

[/ QUOTE ]
I watched that game. Kobe played hard, he just didn't take shots he normally takes. "Taking a night off" and not shooting the ball 20 times in a game aren't the same thing at all. I've coached teams where I've ordered a guard not to take a single shot all game - there are lots of good reasons for this sort of thing. Do I have any idea why Kobe seemed less enthusiastic about shooting the ball that night? Not a clue - and neither do you. The media jumped all over him the second the game was over, so he declined to talk to them for several days.

[ QUOTE ]
Where was his respect when he repeatedly called out his coaches and teammates through the media?

[/ QUOTE ]
You're comparing him to KG, right? Up until this season, it's a regular part of KG's diatribes that he didn't have nearly enough help - meaning "my teammates suck". Regardless, Kobe is one of the Lakers' captains. While you or I might debate the appropriateness and/or effectiveness of criticizing teammates in the media, the proof is in the pudding. The Lakers have 3 of the last 4 NBA Championships - and they appear on the road to a 4th under Kobe and Co.

On the floor, Kobe is every bit the NBA superstar and legend-in-the-making. He plays hard on both ends of the floor, he takes and hits the toughest, most important shots, he's won rings and still hungers for more and he does it all without looking like he thinks he's the most important person in the universe every time he makes a play. (I'm sure he thinks that - he's just got the class and respect to just play and let others judge his place in the game, in a season, over history.)

[NoChance]

When Kerry says he will declare "War" on the Bush campaign, how is that any different than what Garnett did? Yet, nobody in the media bashes him for it. These are comments we make every day. Wolves should "kill" the Kings tonight, etc.

If anybody thought Garnett was actually going to walk on the court with a machine gun and start firing away, they have some serious issues.

Does anyone know exactly what the question was that Garnett was responding to? Was he simply answering in the text that was asked? For example, what if the reporter asked him if he thought tomorrow's game was going to be a war?

[adios]

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder what would make someone say he was a "thug"

[/ QUOTE ]

A troll poster like Irish Hand. I agree with Utah. Garnett apologized perhaps going over the top a little so what? Of course Irish Hand never goes over the top /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[banditbdl]

As for KG's loyalty he could have ripped his teammates during all those losing playoff years, he never did. He could have demanded a trade after getting his money (something plenty of players aren't afraid of doing), he never did. If anything KG's loyalty to his teammates might have hurt the T-wolves as it's rumored he often lobbied to keep current guys on the team rather then have them traded for other players who may have helped the team more. Another example of KG's committment to his teammates: There was a game earlier this year against Memphis, Wolves down 1 end of game, KG passes the ball to a wide open Madsen 2 feet from the hoop, who misses a layup as time expires. Does KG flip on Maddog? No, he's first one there to support Madsen. Has KG ever publicly ripped Flip Saunders? Hell no. Kobe routinely made off hand comments about the fact he and Phil Jackson don't get along despite the fact Phil helped him win 3 championships.

As for the rape stuff, yeah Kobe did get caught. And maybe KG cheats on his new fiance, I have no idea, neither do you. But Kobe had at least questionable sex with a complete and utter stranger, he clearly wasn't thinking about any of the consequences to his wife, family, and teammates. Maybe KG is like other athletes who do the same and he's just never been caught. But none of us has any evidence to substantiate that so he deserves the benefit of doubt for now.

As for the Kings game its damn clear what Kobe was thinking that night. He was thinking fine, my teammates wanna call me out for taking a lot of ill-advised shots, I'll show them what happens when I don't shoot. To say that Kobe, the best in the league at creating his own shot, could take one shot in 3 quarters one night and then score 45 the next game dismiss it as some sort of coincidence is ridiculous. I'm sure he played hard and gave good effort on the defensive end etc., but I find it foolish to believe he didn't make a conscious effort to take his scoring offense out of the game to prove his point.

Kobe is clearly one of the best players in the league and will likely go down alongside MJ as one of the best shooting guard/small forward type players to ever play the game, but to say he of all players respects the game more than KG is insane.

Fine you don't like KG's emotion on the court, you feel it's inappropriate, well that's your taste. I'd take KG's emotion over Tim Duncan's woodenness (although not KG's game over Duncan's) everyday of the week but I can understand why some might not. But to go from that and say KG disrespects the game is ridiculous. He's always played hard and had great respect for the game's history, and rarely if ever gets out-of-line after a big block or dunk in a pointless 15 point down type situation as you describe. But if you wanna label him a punk because he swears too much, gets intense in practice, and let's his emotions run out onto the court then go ahead.

[IrishHand]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd take KG's emotion over Tim Duncan's woodenness (although not KG's game over Duncan's) everyday of the week but I can understand why some might not.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's pretty much the bottom line of our disagreement. Tim Duncan't approach to the game is as good as it gets. He works his butt off in practice and games and - despite your suggestion - displays a great deal of passion and enthusiasm on the floor. He is constantly encouraging teammates, he is clearly upset with himself when he plays poorly, and he celebrates just like everyone else - when a game is over and won. (For the record, I realize that Kobe is much more demonstrative than Duncan, but I can deal with a certain level of demonstrativeness when it's accompanied by domination and championships.)

To me, Duncan is the standard - Garnett the other end of the spectrum - at least on the floor and in his interactions with the game (interviews, practices, etc). There's a reason that Duncan has two rings and Garnett has zero despite similarly talented teammates (marginal, although generally hard workers and good defenders) and similarly talented coaches (both excellent, by the way).

So saying, I have no problem with those who admire a player who screams, rants and raves over every nice pass or dunk. I just don't share in that admiration - at least not for the demonstrativeness. Like I said at the top, Garnett's a hell of a player - I just don't respect the way he acts.

[banditbdl]

For me, KG is my favorite player in the NBA, Duncan second, although Dwayne Wade is coming up real fast, damn he's fun to watch. Of course my love for KG is tied to the fact I'm from the Twin Cities. As for pure talent, I think Duncan might have an edge on Garnett, KG just hasn't figured out how to get HIS shot despite whatever the defense is doing. Although, part of that problem comes from Flip and the team in general, the Twolves are too willingly to let their opponents, even inferior ones, dictate the pace and style of game, rather than forcing the other team to adjust. The thing with the Wolves of old is that up till this year our defense has been pretty bad, and that's what wins championships. This year it's gotten much better.

As for the screaming and ranting, I've never thought KG was that bad with it in games. He yells a lot but I just think it's part of how he maintains a high energy level for himself and his teammates. He is notorious for being a borderline psycho in practices, but Cassell and Spree are both on record as saying they love what he brings to practice as new teammates this year.

As for the coaches I think Poppovich is the best in the league. I've always thought Flip was very strong, but this postseason he's made some bizarre moves with substitutions and defenses were its hard to figure out what exactly he's thinking, hopefully it won't be an issue tonight.

P.S. KG has always been a great interview because he wasn't afraid to use some crazy metaphors and answer dangerous questions. This time he clearly went to far, hopefully he'll be able to learn his lesson without becoming a total drag in interviews. I also find it interesting when people equated the comments as an insult to soldiers, when I saw them I really just thought of them as insensitive to people who have to deal with the violence of 9's etc. in their neighborhood on a daily basis.

[IrishHand]

I actually didn't have any problem with his weapon/war interview - but like I said, I have a pretty low standard for him.

If I was building a franchise for the long-term, I'd take Duncan, then Kobe, then Garnett.

Among coaches, I'd rank the top 6 Phil Jackson, Larry Brown, Gregg Popovich, Jerry Sloane, Rick Carlisle, Flip Saunders. Stan van Gundy did an amazing job with an undertalented Miami team this year, but I'll need to see a few more seasons of similar-quality coaching before he breaks that group of top coaches.

[ QUOTE ]
The thing with the Wolves of old is that up till this year our defense has been pretty bad, and that's what wins championships.

[/ QUOTE ]
True, but they've been the most efficient offensive team for several years now. Like you said, I think it's mostly been a problem of not defining themselves and controlling games accordingly (where possible).

Tonight's game will be interesting. I'd rather the Lakers play Sacramento for entertainment value, but I definitely think a Minn/LAL series would be great fun to watch - mostly because each team's best players (Cassell/Garnett v. Bryant/Shaq) play different positions entirely. Unfortunately, though, it looks like Sammy's back problems could limit him - and I don't think they can beat Sacramento, much less LA, without their star PG in top form.