KQs... anyone play this differently?

[ZootMurph]

I'm thinking maybe a preflop raise OR a flop fold...

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: ZootMurph is BB with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, ZootMurph calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(4 players) </font>
ZootMurph checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, MP2 calls, Button calls, ZootMurph calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 players) </font>
ZootMurph checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, MP2 folds, Button folds, ZootMurph folds.

Final Pot: 7.25 BB
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: 6.25 BB, won by UTG.</font>
<font color="#990066">Pot 2: 1 BB, overbet by UTG.</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
No showdown. UTG wins 7.25 BB. </font>

[JSD]

Zoot,

Definitely not a pre-flop raise unless the UTG raiser is a total LAG. In fact, I'm folding KQ, suited or not, to an UTG raise from a reasonable player if I'm not in the blinds. KQ is garbage against a PF raise - you'll never know where you stand if you flop a K or Q.

The flop call is close since you have backdoor flush possibilities, but again without knowing how clean your K or Q outs are, its tough.

The turn fold is good. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ddubois]

[ QUOTE ]
In fact, I'm folding KQ, suited or not, to an UTG raise from a reasonable player if I'm not in the blinds. KQ is garbage against a PF raise - you'll never know where you stand if you flop a K or Q.

[/ QUOTE ]
You'll know where you stand if the flop is A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif or J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif.

HEPFAP says call raise with as low as group 3 in MP, and as low as group 4 in LP, and KQs is still a group 2 hand. If you're dominated by AKo you'll still win 30% of the time. Sure, with those odds, I don't want to play KQs heads up against another presumed Group 1-2 hand, but with some limpers/cold-callers, I probably have the second-best hand. It depends on your opponents raising standards too - will they raise an 88 or a AJs?

Anyway, I think it's overly harsh to say KQs is "garbage" against an EP raise.

EDIT: N/m, no free card possibility here. Dumb comment.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

The main reason you don't raise in this spot isn't because KQs is garbage, but because you are in bad position to the raiser and would be pointless. But you definitely have the odds to call, just on the flush/straight possibilities alone, never mind your K or Q. Yes, your K or Q might be bad, but there's a bunch of times it might be good too.

Calling is best, folding is okay, but raising is a clear third.

[chesspain]

I would have played it the same way.