A turn decision with 33

[MortalNuts]

Okay, so this isn't a terribly exciting hand, but I'm posting anyway because it's the afternoon and I'm bored and all my other hands this week were even less exciting. Also it involves 33, which I think you'll agree is a pretty sweet hand.

This one's from a Stars 0.5/1 table, looser than usual (meaning like 3 or 4 people to most flops); I've only been sitting here for a couple orbits, but so far most of the players seem moderately non-clownish, meaning they'll call one bet with mediocre holdings (pre or postflop) but start to get antsy when it costs more than that. Villian in this hand just sat down 4 or 5 hands ago, and has played all but one of those; hasn't shown down a hand yet, but has seemed quite aggressive both pre- and postflop. He had folded for one bet on the river in a 15 BB pot two hands ago, though, with no super-plausible draws on board.

I'm in LMP with 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif

Two limpers to me, I limp, Villain (Button) raises, both blinds call, we limpers call too. 6 to the flop for 12 SB.

Flop is 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif 3/images/graemlins/club.gif Checked to me. I check, Villain of course bets, and sadly everyone folds back to me. I curse, and think longingly about Party for like the zillionth time this session. I check-raise anyway. Villain 3-bets. I call, planning to check-raise any turn card.

Turn is the Q of some suit other than spades or clubs. I check, he bets, I raise. Villain 3-bets.

Who caps, and who calls? What hands do you put Villain on?

cheers,

mn

[SaintAces]

OF COURSE YOU CAP!

[cjromero]

I would cap. I bet he has AQ and the Ace of spades.

[MortalNuts]

thanks for the comments so far.

Anyway, I thought it was more likely that he had an overpair or something like AQ with a spade or two than say 99 or QQ -- ordinarily I wouldn't expect a player in this game to 3-bet the turn with TPTK, but heads-up my turn check-raise may have looked a lot like a semi-bluff with a flush draw. So I capped the turn. A third spade came on the river, completing the possible flush, and I bet. He just called, and showed 99 to take it down. Meh.

Not that there's some great consensus to the contrary or anything, but I actually don't think capping the turn is quite as big a no-brainer as the couple responses so far would tend to indicate. I'll say this: if I had known at this point that this guy was a "typical" Stars 0.5/1 player (tight, and pretty passive generally), and there had NOT been a flush draw on board, I would probably have just called his turn 3-bet, and check-called the river. The presence of the flush draw expands his potential 3-betting hands quite a bit, imho, since it expands his possible reads of my check-raising hands a lot; and of course, absent any read that he's solid, he might just be overplaying his hand or something. Whatever.

just my 2c.

cheers,

mn

[ZootMurph]

I think it was Festus that said somewhere else that he pushes until pushed back. I am coming to think that this is awesome advice.

I'd have pushed the flop hard, then bet out on the turn. If raised, I'd be check/calling it down.

[MortalNuts]

thanks for the comment, Zoot.

That's definitely the mantra to go by, in general. But here, I flat-called the flop 3-bet not because I'm worried about a better hand, but to set up the turn check-raise. If I'm up against an overpair or TPTK or something, this line nets an extra SB over capping the flop and leading the turn, since many players would bet TP when checked to on the turn, and pay off a raise and river bet, but would not raise a turn bet after I capped the flop. Of course, if he's on a flush draw and checks the turn I'm not thrilled, and if he has a better hand and 3-bets the turn I'm not thrilled, but I didn't think either of these were all that likely. Not something I do all the time, but I think it's pretty standard.

Of course, when he 3-bets me on the turn, that certainly counts as "pushing back," and I think you can make a good argument for just calling. The problem with that is that on this board there are multiple hands worse than mine that might a) have 3-bet my turn c-r and b) would pay off a cap, and a bet on the river.

in retrospect, I would like my play a lot better if there were no flush draw possible on board, since a) it makes a free card less disastrous and b) if he 3-bets me on the turn with no draws possible, it's typically showing a more serious hand. With this board you may be right that just capping the flop and leading the turn is preferable.

just my 2c.

cheers,

mn