Voodoo Poker

[Tommy Angelo]

Clarkmeister said something about putting voodoo on people at the poker table or something or other and maybe this hand is what he was talking about.

$20-40 at the Golden Nugget. I was bouncing all over the place because one of my best buddies was in the nearby final table of the WSOP PLO event (he came in third!)(and no, I didn't have any of his action, damn!). So I played a round, lobbied a round, played a couple rounds, lobbied a couple rounds. During the playing rounds, the best opportunities I declined were KQo in the SB against a button openraise, I folded, and A5s in middle position after two limpers, I folded.

Finally I got settled in. I was on the button and everyone folded. I raised with Q-5 offsuit. Both players called. The flop came A-10-5. They checked, I bet, and they both called. The turn was a queen. The SB checked. The BB bet, I raised, the SB folded, and the BB called. The river was a blank. He checkcalled and I showed and won. He showed KQ. I was feeling something strong coming from over there, and it wasn't love.

Next hand, all folded to me. I looked left and I saw the player on the button holding his cards flat an inch high while his head was turned back to the waitress. The SB, who had the KQ on the prior hand, had not looked at his cards yet. The BB, I had no read.

I raised. The button folded. The small blind looked at his hand and sat up all of a sudden as if maybe he was trying to overact like he had a monster. He looked around all aflutter as if the bandages had just come off after corrective eye surgery, and he reraised. The big blind folded, and during the time it took me to look at my cards, I decided I wasn't ready to play yet after all, and besides, I did not want to give this guy a chance to regain his composure so fast by winning an actual pot. I'd need one hell of a hand here to give him action. I looked down and saw K5s. Not good enough. I folded. He immediately reacted with a jerk and a huh? and flipped KK. Voodoo?



Tommy

[Barry]

I had stuck a few pins in some of my opponents yesterday during a very good and very profitable 15/30 game at the Bellagio.

In the course of a few hours I openraised from somewhere near the button with:

A8o, flop was K8x, turn was an 8, river something, he showed AK

A6o, flopped 2 6's, got paid off all the way

A3o, flop a wheel and get paid off all the way

QTo, flop JTx, turn, x, river T, we went 2 bets on the flop, and 3 on the river.

It was just my legitimate raising hands AK, AQ that went down in flames.


Later there was a little voodoo practiced by another opponent, who clearly needed the help. This fellow had bought into the game for about a rack and was sinking fast. I have AKo and raise, folded to him in the BB and he makes it 3 bets. I see that he has 4 chips left and I make it 4 bets, he calls.

Flop is QJT, he bets his final chip and I call. He shows TT and says "I have outs" the turn is a T.

A few orbits later he has blown my $65 and is down to 4 red chips. He raises, folded to the button on my left and who makes it 3 bets. Blinds fold.

He shows KK and the button turns over AQ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Flop comes, AQx, turn K and river K.

That was his last hurrah.

[Clarkmeister]

I stole the Voodoo thing from Backdoor. In one post a long time ago he said something like "in X situation it is correct to do Y, all Tommy Angelo freakem out voodoo plays aside."

I was a Tommy check-behind-and-let-them-whiff-on-their-checkraise fiend the other night at Dynasty's.

[MMMMMM]

More posts like this please, Tommy; it is important that the games be kept good;-)

Thank you very much,

M

[elysium]

hi tommy
great post tommy. you know that already. what have i learned from it you say? how to sit. how to hold my cards. that the BB can't be read as well as the SB. ever. and not to try. to sometimes gamble, but when it actually becomes a gamble, really, to get out early. how to preserve precious momentum, casually. lastly, sadly, that in spite of our best efforts, we may not be loved.

experience.

[CrackerZack]

I had an omaha 8 voodoo/clark experience this weekend. I never play omaha 8, I don't really get the game and don't usually like it. It can be fun. One thing I do know is that people in my game raising PF with any pair of aces or any A2 aren't right. There's my edge, if its an edge at all. Anyway, the hand... 15/30 O/8

I get A45T with a suited ace and throw in a red chip after 5 limpers, BB knuckles. Taking a page from ClarkNasty, I say to the dealer, "Flop me the nuts!"

Flop, Ac 2d 3d

Yup, that'll do. I bet, 4 call. while waiting for the world to call, I start thinking, flopping the nuts in omaha is easy, you have half the deck in your hand, keeping the nuts its much harder. Dealer burn, I say, "Keep me the nuts!"

Turn: Ks

I bet again, BB and 1 limper call. Dealer burns, I say, "Keep me the nuts!"

River: 8s

I bet, both call. The nuts are good. This game is fun.

[andyfox]

I've seen a guy raise pre-flop and then fold to a 3-bet exactly twice. (Haven't played often enough with you to see it from you, although you claimed you would have once when I 3-bet you, but alas, a hitchhiker called two from the big blind.) It almost seemed like the 3-betting blind, both times, was angry at the raiser for not calling. Shocked and angry. Just like your guy: how dare you not put one more small bet in when I have a monster!

Cool!

[Tommy Angelo]

Is it okay to think of raising and folding before the flop as "doing something" to someone? It does feel oddly aggressive. When I "did it" to Ray Zee, he said, "Don't you ever do that to me again."

[andyfox]

Poker is, at least for men, I think, not just about cards and money. It's about being naughty and who's got bigger cojones. You're raising me with pee-pee-ca-ca? You're backing down now for one measly bet after putting two in a moment ago? How dare you! Don't ever do that to me again! You hear me? Never! Don't you raise without a raising hand that can stand a reraise.

[mike l.]

"Don't you raise without a raising hand that can stand a reraise.'

i was with you until this. that's not the complaint. the complaint is back where you started, "dont ever stop all action precisely once youve determined i have you in bad shape, especially in a way so against protocol so as to not even seeing a flop for just one more bet."

now im on a mission to try this move.

[Coilean]

I've pulled the reraise preflop and fold for one more bet a few times. Generally, it happens when I am the CO with a tight/straightforward solid player on the button (or maybe in the blinds), I open raise with some garbage like K6s, solid 3-bets, and I fold.

[daryn]

this just sounds incorrect

[rigoletto]

[ QUOTE ]
this just sounds incorrect

[/ QUOTE ]

That's because it is unless Coileen left out something in his description.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
I've pulled the reraise preflop and fold for one more bet a few times. Generally, it happens when I am the CO with a tight/straightforward solid player on the button (or maybe in the blinds), I open raise with some garbage like K6s, solid 3-bets, and I fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm having mixed feelings about this Coilean. It makes sense that you should raise with those types behind you because they fold more than their share and will give you the blinds often enough to make it a profitable raise. and when they reraise its clear your garbage hand will more often than not stand no chance against them and you're out of position against a solid player...but with the blinds in the pot there are (assuming 50 game structure) 6.5sbs in the pot...isn't it worth seeing the flop with K6s?

the solid player may well just be adjusting to you coilean and 3betting you with ATo to which K6s is really not a big dog at all. if i was in a tourney in that button raise all in situation and KNEW he had ATo K6s is a hand you can call for all your chips with getting 3 and change:1 because its not that big of a dog. here you'd be getting 6.5:1 which should account for the fact you cannot see all the streets, you're out of position, and against a solid player.

but again it also makes sense to fold because it WILL cost you money if you flop a draw or a king (although a king wouldn't be too bad b/c its unlikely you'd share a pair in a heads up pot and especially since most of those 3betting hands will contain an ace or be 77-qq, kk, and aa. so if you flop a king you're not in bad shape...its the draw that will cost you $$ and variance.

but all in all, unless you raise with literally absolute garbage like 72o or some such crap, you should see the flop for one bet shouldn't you? but again, not putting that last $50 in could save you a decent amount and that possibly could negate the 6.5:1 you're getting right now.

and also...i know you're in vegas now but where in St.Louis are you from ...i'll be headed there in august and can use some advice.

-Barron

[Coilean]

I'm not going to invest much effort defending a play I've probably made 4 times in my life, but I will say that in all cases I put the guy on AK/AA-99 (45 hands), leaving me with 3 cards to hit about 80% of the time, and needing to hit twice the other 20% of the time. It would be a trivial all-in call, since my showdown equity against that lineup is probably something like 25% overall, but given hitting a K is a loser 40% of the time and hitting a 6 is a loser almost 75% of the time, reverse implied odds will eat up some of that profit, as will the fact that I frequently won't get to see the river or turn card to complete my hand. I don't know if it's the correct play, but I don't think it's better than marginal, and it hardly matters given the frequency with which I do it.

[DcifrThs]

good stuff...i was just curious as to your reasoning.

later.
-Barron