Live 10-20 hand

[RoodyPooh]

In a great 10/20 game. Not much raising pre-flop, everyone is playing too many hands and loves to see flops and play terrible post flop. Poster in the CO. EP is a LAG who tries to be tricky and plays any ace, any paint, any pair, any 2 suited, and any connectors from any position.

Two early limpers to me in MP, I limp with Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, CO checks both blinds come along for 6 to the flop.

Flop: 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

EP bets, folded to me I raise, rest fold EP calls heads up

Turn: 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

EP check, I bet, EP c/r, I call

River: 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

EP bets, I call

Comments?

[AJo Go All In]

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everyone is playing too many hands and loves to see flops

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I limp with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif5/images/graemlins/heart.gif

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[rigoletto]

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everyone is playing too many hands and loves to see flops

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I limp with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif5/images/graemlins/heart.gif

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in MP

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[glen]

I think "the granny" is Qs5s. You are supposed to fold Qh5h. . .

[elysium]

hi roody
fold pre-flop here roody.

[RoodyPooh]

Sorry guys, mispost. It was Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif. I know folding here isn't an option, just wondering who 3-bets the turn here.

[rigoletto]

I still think it's a fold preflop.

Call the turn and raise the river.

[JPolin]

I know your game is weak, loose, and passive. I know that your opponents play poorly post-flop. But it doesn't change the fact that Q9s is a weak hand that shouldn't be played in MP. If you want to play it on the CO or Button for one bet, that's fine. But not in this spot.

Don't gamble with these fools. Win because your cards are "one or two pips higher," as I believe Tommy Angelo once said.

I like your raise on the flop because of the fact that people in your game are idiots who may call two bets cold even when it is an error to do so. I also think raising is correct because it makes it wrong for random gutshots to call you, which they certainly would for one bet.

The turn is an easy 3-bet, if capped you should check-call the river. No way in hell do you fold here.

[RoodyPooh]

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But it doesn't change the fact that Q9s is a weak hand that shouldn't be played in MP.

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IMO, it is profitable in this game.

[rigoletto]

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But it doesn't change the fact that Q9s is a weak hand that shouldn't be played in MP.

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IMO, it is profitable in this game.

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Very convincing argument. I have a hard time imagining any game where Q9s is more than break even from MP. The reason you win in loose games is that you stay tighter than your opponents.

[RoodyPooh]

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Very convincing argument. I have a hard time imagining any game where Q9s is more than break even from MP. The reason you win in loose games is that you stay tighter than your opponents.

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With 4 SB already in the pot, and still some others that will most likey come along and a near zero chance of being raised, I don't mind seeing a flop at all.

[CrackerZack]

This coming from the guy who open limped with QTo in the party 15 games.

I think this could be played profitably, iff you don't have to post these hands and know how to play it perfectly already. If you have to ask, you made a mistake.

[rigoletto]

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This coming from the guy who open limped with QTo in the party 15 games.

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What are you getting at and are you going to stick this to me everytime I recommend a preflop fold?

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I think this could be played profitably, iff you don't have to post these hands and know how to play it perfectly already. If you have to ask, you made a mistake.

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Hardly a heavy endorsement for playing the hand.

[CrackerZack]

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What are you getting at and are you going to stick this to me everytime I recommend a preflop fold?

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I'm getting at the contradiction I don't completely understand. And unless my memory is failing, I am getting older, I don't think I've every stuck anything to you.

I agreed with you that this should be a preflop fold for non-expert players. I guess the only way to really learn though is to play the hand so maybe it shouldn't be. From an EV standpoint, I think the poster should fold, from a learning standpoint, i don't have a real opinion.

[rigoletto]

Just wondered what a bad play on my part in an unrelated hand had to do with this thread. No biggie.

[RoodyPooh]

I'm trying to get more experience playing marginal hands and the only way to do it, is to play them... IMO I played it too weak by not re-raising the turn or raising the river. LAG shows A9o and MHIG

[CrackerZack]

oh. nothing really. It was sort of a shot although when posting it I didn't mean it to be, now its obvious that it would be taken as such. At least we also agree on the QT being a fold /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[steveyz]

I don't think you played it too weak. You're hand is not that strong. Against a LAG, I definitely wouldn't fold top pair, but I'd just call down after his turn check-raise. If you 3-bet, he may well fold, and you'll feel sick if he caps it on you. Against a true maniac, maybe you can put in another raise, but against typical LAGs, you are better off just calling.