Gay Marriage

[El Barto]

Monday is the day when it becomes legal in Massachusetts. Several towns on Cape Cod are going to marry out-of-Staters. All court challenges have failed.

Is anyone here going to get married on Monday?

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Please. I'm on my 3rd marriage already. I don't think marrying someone of the same sex is going to solve my issues. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[ACPlayer]

Hey, you never know! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Philuva]

By Tuesday, the sanctity of all heterosexual marriages will be destroyed. I have been married for almost 3 years, but now that gays are allowed to be married, I'll be lucky if my wife and I make it until the weekend. What were those crazy Massachusetts judges thinking?

Seriously, does anyone really care if gays get married?

My friend had a good idea. He said that if the US ever passed a constituional ammendment banning gay marriages, he would get a divorce from his wife. He didn't realize when he signed up to get married, it was some exclusive club the government had control over, so he wants out. It would be a nice gesture when the gov't tries to preserve "the moral fabric" of this country by trying pass such an oppresive law, it results in a spike of un-wed couples living in sin with children out of wedlock. That would be funny.

[BirthdayBoy]

Is anyone here going to get married on Monday?

Why yes, I'm marrying my true love, Simon /images/graemlins/grin.gif

http://www.unionoflove.com/cards/images/m_8_kiss.jpg


And Monday is my Birthday!

[MMMMMM]

I don't have a problem with them getting married but I do have a problem if the courts have overstepped their bounds for what perhaps should have been a legislative choice. Not sure since I have heard both sides of the story pretty well argued.

Also, I do have reservations about same-sex couples having children. It seems very presumptuous to state that a child does as well with two mothers or two fathers as with one mother and one father. No major studies have yet been done on the subject. I for one don't see how it could be "just as good", but that doesn't mean that SOME same sex couples might not be better for a child than SOME traditional couples. However it is too soon to tell what effects this might have on a child's emotional development or psychosexual development. It is known that a child's feelings towards the opposite sex are often influenced in some ways by the child's parent of the opposite sex. With same sex couples, the child might not have a pasrent of the opposite sex, or conversely might not have a parent of the same sex to talk about guy or gal things growing up.

I just think people are presuming way too much about this, and the stupid PC movement of course eggs them on, shunning any critical-thinking approach that might conflict with the preordained PC world view.

All that said, I could give two hoots if they get married, but let's be sure it is not a case of activism from the bench, which has increasingly been a problem for many years.

Whether the end result is something you agree with or not is not the point, because next time it very well might what you don't like. What matters is whether our laws and decisions are arrived at constitutionally, as that is the only way to ensure protection for everybody in the long run.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

The Mass Court ruled that the legislature had violated the State Constitution, Isn't that the job of the Court? Checks and balances.

[MMMMMM]

Yes I've heard that argument. The contrary argument is that laws regarding marriage are supposed to be matters decided by the legislature not the court.

If the courts can simply overrule any law, ordering the legislature to make a specific new law in its place, then in essence the courts wield the ultimate power. Where does it end, theoretically? What use is there then for a legislature, if the courts can destroy any laws and order new laws made? Might as well have only courts and no legislature, if there are not restrictions on such powers of the courts.

If you have justices who are prone to activism from the bench, who also have the power to overturn any laws and order legislatures to create new specific laws, then what you really have is rule by the judicial branch. And since there is no way to ensure the absence of judicial activism, what is the constitutional safeguard against all of our laws eventually being decreed by unelected fellows in black robes? And why isn't that constitutional safeguard applicable in this case (or is it?)

[Sundevils21]

Does this mean pretty soon were are going to now see 2 "married" men/women, making out in McDonalads while there 5yr. old "daughter" plays in the playplace? Is this going to be the common sight for my children?

[andyfox]

Married people rarely make out in public. It's usually the unmarrieds that do it. What's worse about your five year old seeing two women making out than seeing a man and a woman doing it?

[Utah]

Its a tricky issue. Did the Mass. Supreme Court step over the line here? I dont know enough about the case. If they didnt step over the line then they were simply interpetating and following legislative wishes.

The legislature has recourse here and I am guessing that they had recourse for many many years and did not exercise it - the recourse being a constiutional amendment to clarify the issue. This did not just sneak up on them.

I am suprised that this is not receiving more press - this is a HUGE national issue. My guess is that the pro-gay forces made a huge strategic blunder here as they are simply inviting a massive backlash and they risk a federal constitutional amendment.

My big problem here is that, although I am pro gay marriage, I hate the 'damn the rule of law' approach by the pro-gay forces. I dont understand why people think their issue is above the law and that they can insulate themselves from debate with dumbass slogans as, "we simply want the rights of everyone else." I am not saying that they are not denied their rights (I think they are)but the issue is complex and their is a process in place to change those rules through the rule of law.

I have a friend who is bisexual. She threw that slogan at me when I brought up the complexities. However, I simply asked her, "can two brothers get married or can a mother daughter get married." She said "no, because genetics were involved". I said, "Hey, they simply want the rights of everyone else". She replied, "that is completely different!!!". Oh really? hmmm......

[Sundevils21]

where do you draw the line? What about cattle? Can a farmer marry his goat? What about tax impliacations? he can marry his goat then get better deals on taxes?

Yea it does bother me that my kid might have to watch two of his friends "parents" making out. It wouldn't bother you if your kids saw that? You liberals crack me up.

[andyfox]

You draw the line at people. Nobody is pushing for a farmer to be able to marry his goat.

No, it wouldn't bother me for my kid to see my his friend's parents making out. It bothers me that you needed quotation marks for parents.

[Sundevils21]

I respect your opinion and respectavly disagree.
So homosexuality doesn't bother you but someone being against it does? Sounds pretty hipocritical to me. If your stance is let everyone choose themselves then why would it bother you for me to have my opinion? That it is wrong and I don't want my children seeing it.

[andyfox]

Being against it doesn't bother me. But discriminating against homosexuals because one is against it does bother me. You don't have to like homosexuals, but they shouldn't be denied equal rights because of the fact that you (and many other people) don't like them. My rights stop where yours begin.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
Does this mean pretty soon were are going to now see 2 "married" men/women, making out in McDonalads while there 5yr. old "daughter" plays in the playplace? Is this going to be the common sight for my children?

[/ QUOTE ]

So you are OK with them making out in McDonalds without a daughter? Because that's the only part of what you write that can't happen already. Last I checked gays didn't need to be married in order to make out in public.

Don't worry, its not contagious. Be careful though, they are all around you and you don't even know who they all are.

[Sundevils21]

I don't think it's right= you don't have a problem
I don't think they should have the same rights as others= you have a problem

Is this right? If so then I can understand where you are coming from, I just disagree.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I don't want my children seeing it.

You can't prevent your children from seeing homosexuals because they're part of society. Ban Gay marriage and gays aren't going to disappear. Homosexuality has been in human society since the beginning. It's a reality of life and your kids are going to be exposed to it eventually whether you like it or not.

And I'm no liberal. You can ask Andy /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Utah]

Did you call me a liberal!!??

If so, that cracks me up. I am usually called a conservative crackpot who supports Bush no matter what.

[Sundevils21]

That is very true Kurn. When I asked if gay marriages will increase the chances of that happening, the respnse was no it will happen anyway. So I accept that.
Yes my kids will be exposed to it. I am definatly not one to shelter my kids so bad that by the time they turn 18 they have no idea about the real world. I would compare it to pornographic video's and using bad language. Eventually they are going to become aware of these things, I just don't want them to be exposed to it at a young age. I think we can agree that children should not be allowed to watch porn and cuss all day. But I'm almost positive that my comparison will not be agreed upon.

[Sundevils21]

I wasn't calling you a liberal Utah(sorry if it came off that way). It just craks me up how they think. For example your friend who is pro-gay marriage and wants equality, would not want to grant that same equality to a man and his brother, or a women and her aunt. What do most people then think of polygamy? Why should you be given equal rights and the person who wants 3 wives not be given equal rights? I was just saying it's funny how a lot of them think.(Sorry for the sterotype though)
As far politics go, yea I'm a republican. I'm proBush, prowar,prolife. I'm not way out in right field though. I'm not like Barry Goldwater or anything. This coming election will be the first I am allowed to vote on.

[andyfox]

"I'm proBush, prowar,prolife."

Without Bush, there's no war.

And without bush, there's no life.

[Duke]

[ QUOTE ]
It bothers me that you needed quotation marks for parents.

[/ QUOTE ]

I figured he didn't know that parent could also mean a guardian, hence the quotes. Like... 2 people of the same sex cannot create a baby, or did that bill get signed into law?

~D

[BirthdayBoy]

[ QUOTE ]
Is anyone here going to get married on Monday?

Why yes, I'm marrying my true love, Simon /images/graemlins/grin.gif

http://www.unionoflove.com/cards/images/m_8_kiss.jpg



[/ QUOTE ]
Accomplished! Now for the big honeymoon in Las Vegas.

[ericd]

I don't know the details of the fight but I'd assume someday the lawyers for the Gay Community will argue before the Supreme Court and the issue will not be marriage but Civil Rights. Thus, with Supreme Court Justice nominations coming up shortly, the Presidential election carries even greater weight than is usually reported.