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ACPlayer
05-14-2004, 10:40 PM
Perhaps the problem in Gharib is not the 8 or 10 misfits but societal. Two articles I read this morning.

Article 1 (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/FE15Ak03.html)

Extract:
On April 30, US President George W Bush condemned the incidents of Iraq prison abuse and those who perpetrated them, saying: "That's not the way we do things in America." Administration officials have launched a campaign to portray the incidents as isolated aberrations; though, "systemic" abuse has been charged by the International Committee of the Red Cross. Amnesty International claims a "pattern of torture". But while an army report has described the "sadistic, blatant, and wanton criminal abuses" of Iraqi prisoners - including sodomy and other physical assaults - no one has yet dared compare this to America's well documented abuse of its own citizens, and the factors driving abuse at home and abroad.

"Five years ago, after prison scandals gripped California with tales of guards setting up inmates in human cockfights and then shooting them dead, the state Department of Corrections vowed to change its ways," read a December 28, 2003 article from the Los Angeles Times. Notably, the article was entitled "Despite State Promises, Reform Eludes Prisons", illustrating a well-established official pattern of effectively condoning abuse, then paying lip-service to outrage and reform when a scandal breaks
Article 2 (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/FE15Ak01.html)

Extract:

There are many differences between the United States war in Iraq and the war in Vietnam. But there are some obvious similarities. Both conflicts, for one example, involved widespread brutality by the American armed forces toward civilians and the torture of "suspected" enemies.

Thirty-five years ago, commenting on the American massacre in My Lai, Vietnam, this author wrote an editorial in the Guardian weekly (US) that contained the following paragraph: "This calculated slaughter of the innocents is neither a mistake nor an aberration, neither a temporary moral lapse on the part of weary GIs nor the debased sadism of a few perverts. The murder of more than 500 civilian residents of My Lai - children in arms, women and men - is the quintessential expression of American imperialism and racism directed toward one hamlet in ravaged South Vietnam."

paland
05-14-2004, 11:08 PM
There's a good article about the power abuse of the California Correctional Peace Officers Association in the Sacramento News and Review this week. Their abuse hasn't ended, it's only gotten stronger.

http://www.newsreview.com/issues/sacto/2004-05-13/cover.asp

IrishHand
05-15-2004, 01:08 AM
I can't really comment on police brutality since I have little knowledge, education or experience with it. However, I do think that it's somewhat unfair to judge military occurrences the way we do.

War is a horrible, awful thing to experience. In combat, or in occupying a hostile territory, you're in a situation where the risk of death is a daily reality. Every person you see not wearing the same uniform as you is a potential assassin. It's natural to develop behaviors in a situation like that that would hardly be acceptable in a normal, peacetime, civilian situation.

Does that justify killing "enemy" civilians? Does it justify torture of POWs and/or civilians? Probably not - but I certainly don't think you can look at any such situation from the comfort of your peaceful and secure life and daily existence and judge accordingly. War is hell...don't expect people to behave like angels when it happens.

Some news site (I forget which) had a thing where readers could submit answers to a question which amounted to "how does the Iraq prisoner abuse scandal affect your view of the war and/or the US?" One reader answered something to the effect of "it doesn't change my opinion one bit. I was against the war when it started, but once you start a war, horrible things happen." That's pretty much how I feel.

I think that Americans in general lack a sense of perspective or humanity when it comes to war - largely because they've been sheltered from its direct effects. With the exception of a relatively minor (in the grand scheme of military actions) bombing of a US military installation in Dec. 1941, war hasn't taken place on US soil in well over a hundred years. Accordingly, US civilians haven't been exposed to the real horrors of war in over a hundred years. No US city has been bombed. No US city has been occupied. Heck - we've gotten to the point now where we can wage campaigns in two countries on the other side of the world without materially affecting the average civilian's life. No rationing of food, not even of luxury goods. No conscription. No blackouts. No war economy. Nope...the average American's life isn't much different now than it was before the events of 9/11 resulted in the initiation of this so-called war on terrorism with its associated invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq.

On the other side, those nations which were deeply scarred by the First and Second World Wars - most notably the European nations and Russia - seem to have a much better understanding of what it means to take that irreversible step to war. While there's certainly something to be learned from their seemingly higher understanding of the effect of wars on a nation, I fear that we're less interested in understanding as we are in self-justification and moralization.

Irish