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Freudian

05-14-2004, 09:56 AM

Hand 1)

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 raises, CO calls, Hero calls, SB folds, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (6 players) 
BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets, CO calls, Hero calls, BB calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (8.75 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players) 
BB checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, Hero calls, BB folds, MP2 calls, MP3 raises, CO folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

River: (15.75 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players) 
MP2 checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: 17.75 BB
Main Pot: 17.75 BB, between MP3 and Hero.

Q1) Raise the flop?
Q2) Raise the river?

Hand 2)

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif. CO posts a blind of $1.
Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (7 players) 
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 bets, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB folds, Hero raises, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players) 
Hero bets, MP3 calls, Button calls.

River: (9.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players) 
Hero bets, MP3 folds, Button folds.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB
Main Pot: 9.50 BB, won by Hero.
Pot 2: 1 BB, overbet by Hero.

Q) Call the flop and check-raise the turn instead?

ZootMurph

05-14-2004, 10:06 AM

Hand 1:

Q1) Yes. You hit your nut flush draw. Build up the pot.
Q2) Yes. You hit your nut flush. The following hands beat you: QQ, 88, 33, 22, Q8, Q3, Q2. MP3 has Kings or Aces, and CO has QJ (or some Queen with an unmatched kicker). MP3 will definitely hand around for a raise on the river.

Hand 2:

Q) No. You played it correctly. You have top pair and nut flush draw. You should be betting the heck out of this hand. I like the river bet as well. You are planning on calling a bet here, so might as well be the one betting.

easypete

05-14-2004, 10:07 AM

Hand 1 -

I think calling pf is good. With a couple limpers ahead of the MP3 raise, your hand may be dominated pf by MP3.

I would raise the flop here.

I would also raise the river.

Hand 2 -

I think it was played well. I may have even bet-raised flop instead of check-raising. Nobody showed strenght pf. If a free card was given on the flop, may be devistating if 5th flush card doesn't hit. Somebody w/ A3 may hit a 3.

chief444

05-14-2004, 10:16 AM

Hand 1: Easy river raise...unless you think MP3 raised pf with Q-8. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Hand 2: I would have just led out on the flop and hope for someone to raise or at least a lot of callers. Since you check/raised the flop you definitely don't want to try to check/raise the turn. Don't try to get too tricky. Just bet your hands. This is micro limit...there will usually be plenty of callers.

sin808

05-14-2004, 10:25 AM

Hand 1: I raise the flop. I think the c/r on the turn by MP3 (when the Q's pair) would probably keep me from raising the river, but that could be weak\tight. If you had raised you probably would know right away if your beat, since he should re-raise if he's got a boat (or quads). I'd guess him for AQ or KQ though without that info.

Hand 2: I like the flop raise. I don't like a c/r with only a T kicker and the draw. Not to mention your raise on the flop may have scared mp3 into not betting, so you'd risk it getting checked through and end up missing bets. Better to bet out IMO.

sin808

05-14-2004, 10:29 AM

I think I've been up too long...my response to hand 1 contradicts itself..yes you should raise the river.

and apparently so does 2...(sorry just got off work, been up 21 hours now)..I don't like c/r the turn, especially after c/r the flop. Personally I would have bet out on the flop.

chief444

05-14-2004, 10:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like a c/r with only a T kicker and the draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wish I only had that every time I saw a flop. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I've played entire sessions where I never get a flop that good. I agree though that betting out would be better. But it's a must raise when it comes back around after hero checked. I've check/raised hands much worse than this, although for different reasons.

sin808

05-14-2004, 10:45 AM

True true...I'm just not a fan of c/r at this limit, unless I'm trying to trap players. Odds are they'll call anyway, so I'd rather bet out than run the risk of giving a free card.

sfer

05-14-2004, 10:49 AM

Hand 1: Raise the flop. The pot is big so cleaning up 3 more outs can be crucial here. If they fold, good, you've improved your chances of winning. If they call, good, you're getting +EV from callers with your nut draw. Also, unless you're 3-bet here, you're setting yourself up to see a cheap river card. If you're 3-bet by MP3 and you have several callers, cap the flop.

There's no point drawing to nut flushes if you're not going to extract value when you river them. Raise the river. You're probably up against AQ.

Hand 2: Raise preflop. Especially with the potential dead money in the pot. How you played it, just bet the flop and hope for a raise that lets you 3-bet.

Good table selection. I rarely found 1/2 PS tables this loose when I was bonus whoring.

Freudian

05-14-2004, 11:50 AM

This was not particularly loose tables (25% seeing the flop) which is why I tend to respect turn-raises a lot and start to think what hands they might see the flop with. Most of the times I get raised on the turn on tables like this it's a set.