Some hands for review. [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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Askilus

05-14-2004, 08:06 AM

Some hands from my last session. I have been playing badly the past days and need some input from you guys. All the hands are from the same session and table. No specific reads on any of the players. The table as a whole is a little bit tighter than Party average.

Hand #1
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players) 
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, CO folds, Button calls, BB folds, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players) 
Hero bets, Button calls.

River: (8.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players) 
Hero bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 10.25 BB
Main Pot: 10.25 BB, between Hero and Button.

Q1: Pretty straightforward and routine, right?

Hand #2
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero raises, Button calls, SB folds, BB folds.

Flop: (5.50 SB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players) 
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players) 
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button folds.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB
Main Pot: 5.75 BB, won by Hero.
Pot 2: 1 BB, overbet by Hero.

Q2: Bad PF raise? With a lot of limpers I think that I would have limped as well. Now I raised in an attempt to steal.

Q3: Should I have waited with the raise to the river? I was quite sure that he called me PF just because he tried to catch a complete bluff from my side. Waiting until the river may give him a good hand. Maybe even a lower flush.

Hand #3
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
Hero raises, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 3-bets, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, Hero caps, MP2 calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players) 
Hero bets, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP2 caps, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.75 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players) 
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, MP2 3-bets, Hero calls.

River: (14.75 BB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players) 
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 16.75 BB
Main Pot: 16.75 BB, between Hero and MP2.

Q4: The raise on the turn here was a mistake - I pushed the wrong button. When he shows me that much strength preflop and on the flop my plan became to check-call him down. Is this the appropriate way to go?

Q5: Did I play to aggresive on the flop in this situation?

Q6: As it turned out (with my raise on the turn) should I have dropped it right away?

Festus22

05-14-2004, 08:21 AM

Hand 1 - About as routine as it gets. Let me guess, button showed you QQ?

Hand 2 - You should raise A-10s everytime ESPECIALLY if you have a ton of limpers. Played the hand fine. You can't be sure he won't check behind you on the river. And I'd try and find a better table.

Hand 3 - Call down on starting on the turn. Capped PF and capped flop with QQ on board. What are you ahead of except some maniac having a spasm? I don't think I could lay down an overpair here however. I'd expect to lose but hope it was the maniac spasm thing.

chief444

05-14-2004, 08:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Q1: Pretty straightforward and routine, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Very straightforward.

[ QUOTE ]
Q2: Bad PF raise? With a lot of limpers I think that I would have limped as well. Now I raised in an attempt to steal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Anything but a raise would be a mistake. You are not raising in an attempt to steal you are raising because you have a strong hand. You should be raising this from CO regardless of number of limpers.

[ QUOTE ]
Q3: Should I have waited with the raise to the river? I was quite sure that he called me PF just because he tried to catch a complete bluff from my side. Waiting until the river may give him a good hand. Maybe even a lower flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

The turn raise is better, IMO, than waiting until the river. He may just have a high diamond that he is semibluffing with and going for a check/raise on the river would be very risky. Or he may have a pair and get scared off by a river card. If he didn't have enough to call your turn raise with it's very doubtful that you would have gotten anything at all from him on the river.

[ QUOTE ]
Q4: The raise on the turn here was a mistake - I pushed the wrong button. When he shows me that much strength preflop and on the flop my plan became to check-call him down. Is this the appropriate way to go?

Q5: Did I play to aggresive on the flop in this situation?

Q6: As it turned out (with my raise on the turn) should I have dropped it right away?

[/ QUOTE ]

As you realize, the turn raise was a mistake. I probably would have folded when he 3-bet. The pf and flop play I like. I would have considered laying it down when he capped the flop and would have reconsidered laying it down when the third diamond hit on the turn. Unless he is a maniac (a read on the player would be very helpful here) I can't think of any hands you beat that he would play this way. I suppose calling it down is OK but I honestly don't expect to win this the 1 in 6 or 7 times you would need to based on the pot odds.

Rico Suave

05-14-2004, 09:25 AM

Hey askilus:

Hands 1 & 2 look fine.

Hand3:
The turn c/r is bad. If he was spraying chips on the flop like that without a q, surely he was on a flush draw, which got there on the turn. Bet, call a raise and call it down, or just check call it down from there.

--Rico

Askilus

05-14-2004, 09:33 AM

I know the c/r on the turn was bad. As I said in my post just below the hand history I pushed the wrong button and raised. My plan with this much action preflop and on the flop was to just call it down.

chief444

05-14-2004, 09:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand3:
The turn c/r is bad. If he was spraying chips on the flop like that without a q, surely he was on a flush draw, which got there on the turn. Bet, call a raise and call it down, or just check call it down from there.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you are saying (and I agree) that unless the opponent is just throwing chips away there is no hand that he could hold that hero beats. I agree with that. But then you say he should lead out on the turn and then call down. Why? Check/calling down I could see but no way I bet/raise again following the flop unless a K hits. If it wasn't micro limits against an unknown player this would be an easy fold on the turn.

Askilus

05-14-2004, 09:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2 - You should raise A-10s everytime ESPECIALLY if you have a ton of limpers. Played the hand fine. You can't be sure he won't check behind you on the river. And I'd try and find a better table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, ATs is one of the hands i'm a little bit insecure about.

Let's picture this situation:

Your in CO or on the button. Several limpers and you hold ATs. You raise and it gets three-betted by a limp-reraiser. What to do? Just call or do you cap it?

Askilus

05-14-2004, 09:44 AM

By the way, button showed me A7o /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Rico Suave

05-14-2004, 09:52 AM

Hey Chief:

[ QUOTE ]
So you are saying (and I agree) that unless the opponent is just throwing chips away there is no hand that he could hold that hero beats. I agree with that. But then you say he should lead out on the turn and then call down

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right, check calling is probably best.

--Rico

Festus22

05-14-2004, 09:58 AM

It's not the easiest hand in the world to play. If you're not comfortable yet, then limp. But you MUST at some point start raising with it. It's just too much hand to play passive since it will almost always be better than what your opponents are limping with.

In the situation you described (which I think is quite rare, especially at micro levels), I'd just call the limp reraise. You're likely up against big cards. Play accordingly.

chief444

05-14-2004, 10:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, ATs is one of the hands i'm a little bit insecure about.

[/ QUOTE ]
Don't be insecure about it. It's a strong hand that plays well both shorthanded and multiway.

[ QUOTE ]
Let's picture this situation:

Your in CO or on the button. Several limpers and you hold ATs. You raise and it gets three-betted by a limp-reraiser. What to do? Just call or do you cap it?

[/ QUOTE ]
First of all, limp reraises are not that common. But if it happens, you probably just call. Limp reraises often mean AA or KK. However, if it comes from an aggressive thinking player when there are many players in the pot it could be something less such as a medium suited connector (J-10s, 9-10s or even less) that will win more than it's share against a large field. In that case, I consider capping. But normally just call.

Raiser

05-14-2004, 10:14 AM

#1 - Looks good.

#2 - Good PF Raise. The CR worked for you, but I think checking the flop was a risky move. You aren't afraid of him catching up, but there is a chance that he won't put any money in the pot. Unless you knew him pretty well and knew he'd bet it for you, I'd bet on the flop. Especially since you raised pre-flop. Checking looks like a slowplay to me in this spot.

#3 - I like the 3-bet on the flop. But after he caps it, I go into call down mode with the 2 queens on the board. Looks like Aces, but he could have AQ or KQ and be ahead of you too.

Askilus

05-14-2004, 10:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
#2 - Good PF Raise. The CR worked for you, but I think checking the flop was a risky move. You aren't afraid of him catching up, but there is a chance that he won't put any money in the pot. Unless you knew him pretty well and knew he'd bet it for you, I'd bet on the flop. Especially since you raised pre-flop. Checking looks like a slowplay to me in this spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

This may very well be true. But I got the feeling that he called me preflop just because he belived that I bluffed and tried to steal the blinds without a legitimate hand. My plan by checking was to get him to bet because he wanted me out of the pot. I'm not saying that it wasn't a risky move but as I see it I may have collected 1.5 BB this way.
The table was pretty tight and I'm afraid that a bet on the flop after my preflop raise would have scared him out of the pot.

And yes, the best thing to do would probobly have been to go and look for a softer table.