KJo hand in MP.

[J6o All In]

comments

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (18 SB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(6 players) </font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (14 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(5 players) </font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, BB calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls.

River: (22 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(4 players) </font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 24 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
UTG+1 shows Kh 9h (one pair, nines).
Hero shows Ks Jc (one pair, jacks).
Outcome: Hero wins 24 BB. </font>

[Jaran]

Looks standard to me. What do you do if the 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif comes on the river?

-Jaran

[Peter Harris]

looks standard?

forgive me, i only play .5/1 but you raise 2 limpers with KJo? I would probably be folding or limping with this hand.

And the only thing more amazing than you raising KJo is the cheese that UTG+1 was three-betting with. I thought 1/2 was meant to be much more "tight-aggressive" than .5/1, but 3-betting with K9o makes me wonder.

I suppose the maniacs populate the city. So, why raise with KJo against limpers? is this something i should be doing???

Peter Harris

[HajiShirazu]

I wouldn't fault raising if you were on the CO or button. But you're in way too early a position to raise or even play KJo here. The chance of running into a better hand behind you is far too great.

[blackaces13]

You should NOT be raising KJo in MP after 2 limpers. KJo is a pretty bad hand, folding would not be a bad play here but calling is OK I suppose if you're bored.

UTG+1's play is ridiculous in this hand and you can't count on players being this bad (even at Party). You ended up winning a very big pot but don't get into the habit of overplaying a mediocre hand like KJo. It'll be a major leak in the longrun, trust me.

[RED_RAIN]

I don't like the preflop raise. I also don't like you raising the better again on the turn unless you got a good read on this player. Nice flop for you.

[Jaran]

Hey Peter,
You're right on the pf raise. My only excuse was it was late and I misread hero's position /images/graemlins/tongue.gif . Thanks for pointing it out.

-Jaran

[Peter Harris]

no problem!

now we just need J6 to renege on his desire to raise with KJo in MP /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Pete

[josie_wales]

Hey Bro,

With UTG and UTG+1 Limping and you in poor postion, Id muck this. Too much trouble can come from KJo out of position.

JW

[twomarks]

I'm glad I read this post - it's uncovered yet another leak in my game.

Q: Would you limp in if UTG and UTG+1 had folded?

Thanks,

twomarks

[submariner]

How would anyone have played this hand from the flop on? Say you misclicked and hit raise instead of fold preflop.

I think I would have played it the same, except maybe just calling on the turn.

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
And the only thing more amazing than you raising KJo is the cheese that UTG+1 was three-betting with.

[/ QUOTE ]
What I find most amazing is that he would 3-bet pf but not 3-bet the flop when he has middle pair, the second nut flush draw, and 4 opponents.

I'm not sure that raising with K-Jo from mp is as bad of a play as everyone seems to be making it out to be though. I don't think raising is worse than limping, to be honest. If it's that much trouble post flop, then just fold. Raising only costs you one extra small blind compared to limping. Not raising will cost you an occasional pot.

[secada]

I'm thinking if UTG &amp; UTG+1 folded then you would want to raise...or fold i guess. hopefully someone else can add.

secada

[RED_RAIN]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm thinking if UTG &amp; UTG+1 folded then you would want to raise...or fold i guess. hopefully someone else can add.

secada

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one who thinks KJo is a bad hand? Not the worse but can get you in a lot of trouble when you raise in this position. With many people behind to act you aren't going for a blind steal from here unless your game is really that tight.

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one who thinks KJo is a bad hand? Not the worse but can get you in a lot of trouble when you raise in this position.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you're not the only one who thinks it is a trouble hand...hence the debate. And to clarify, in my post above I wasn't saying that raising is the best option. I actually think with two limpers in and you in early/mp folding may be best. But if I chose to play this I would probably raise with it. I understand everyone being concerned with him raising in this situation. But I just don't see limping as the better option.

My order of choice here at a typical table would be 1) fold 2) raise 3) limp. To be honest, for a good post flop player who can recognize and let go of a second best hand without losing a bundle and also extract the maximum when they have the best hand they are probably all nearly 0 EV in the long run. I would expect to see a lot of fluctuations in the bankroll if you play hands like this frequently.