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View Full Version : Turn check-behind: good/bad/so-so?


Nate tha' Great
05-14-2004, 12:01 AM
Opponent is quite loose on all streets and alternately aggressive and passive. "Typical" I suppose.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Nate is CO with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, MP folds, <font color="CC3333">Nate raises</font>, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">Nate bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
BB checks, Nate checks.

River: (3.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, Nate calls.

Final Pot: 5.25 BB
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: 5.25 BB, between BB and Nate.</font>

bugstud
05-14-2004, 12:32 AM
Sounds mostly like a "you had to be there," so I'll fire out the typical questions. If you think he checkraises with worse hands, I might bet here for value. If he has a singleton club he ought to pay to draw, same for a worse A or 4. Positives in checking behind being that he may bluff the river with a hopeless hand. I take it you weight the latter more than the former in this instance?

Nate tha' Great
05-14-2004, 12:50 AM
I made a post entitled "betting to induce a check-raise" a while back which dealt with a situation somewhat similar to this one: my opponent was very keen on check-raising, but he would check-raise so often with weaker hands that the combination of inducing a bluff and not wanting to give away a free card made a bet worthwhile. This opponent might have been in the same ballpark.

King Yao
05-14-2004, 12:58 AM
I like it, but I think its close.
You give him a free card, but that's balanced by his propensity to bluff on the River.

If he has a 9 or a club, you save yourself one or two bets, and give yourself a free card.

If he had a 4, you give him 2 free outs, but that's ok if he will bet on the River, or if your check on the Turn increases the likelihood that he calls on the River as opposed to calling on the Turn (IOW, he may fold on the Turn with only a 4, but call your bet on the River - this is of course he doesn't hit the third 4).

If he had one club, he is calling you on the Turn if you bet, but if you check the Turn, he may very well bet the River with nothing....so if he has a club, I think checking on the Turn is better against most SH players.

The only time you lose is if he would've called a bet on the Turn and the River with a weaker Ace. But this scenario is probably most likley, which is why I think its good, but its still close.

I'm guessing he had a 4 and got lucky and the turn check backfired on you.

BugsBunny
05-14-2004, 01:27 AM
Overall I like it. If you're behind you lose the minimum. If you're ahead he may bluff the river and you get back the lost turn bet.

From the sound of it this player was sticking around anyway if he had anything even close to a hand, so in that sense the free card doesn't hurt you. And you may even be drawing dead already (blind squirrels and nuts).

1800GAMBLER
05-14-2004, 08:29 AM
I'd bet. A,x usually still c/rs here. 4,x is a very possible hand too, that will call. Low pocket pairs will call both bets on the turn and river.

TazQ
05-14-2004, 02:18 PM
I'd bet the turn. You said yourself that he was quite loose. He could be calling the flop with a single club, 23o, a small pocket pair, a worse ace, or something like KTo. I don't like giving a free card to very loose players who would of paid you off on the turn with anything.